The second reading of the Universal Credit and Personal Independent Payment Bill begins at 1.40pm today.

The vote is expected at 7.00pm

You can watch the debate live on parliament tv here.

We won’t be giving a blow-by-blow account of the debate, but you are welcome to comment on proceedings below the line.


You can see a full list of the votes on the second reading here.  49 Labour MPs rebelled.


The vote on the Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill second reading is:  For 335.  Against 260.  A majority in favour of the bill of 75.


Here is the list of which MPs voted for and against the amendment.


The vote on the rebel amendment has now been held.  149 in favour of the bill being dropped without a second reading, 328 against.  This means the amendment has failed and there will now be a vote on the actual bill itself.


4-point PIP rule is gone

The 4-point PIP rule is effectively dead as Labour makes its biggest concession yet.  Timms has just told the House:  "I can announce that we are going to remove the clause five from the bill at committee, that we will move straight to the wider review, sometimes referred to as the Timms review, and only make changes to Pip eligibility, activities and descriptors following that review."

Clause 5 is the 4-point rule, so that is now gone.  Instead, the Timms review will decide what happens to PIP.  And if, as Labour have promised, the review is genuinely coproduced with disabled people there is very little chance of such a rule ever happening.  And if Labour did try to force it into the review decision they would be likely to face an even worse rebellion than the one they have just suffered,

This seems to mean that the main purpose of the bill is now to take money from future recipients of the UC health element and to introduce the severe conditions criteria.


Jessica Elgot of the Guardian is reporting on Bluesky that the government are considering more concessions whilst Arj Sigh of the i paper says crisis talks between Angela Rayner and the rebels on changes to PIP rules being put off until after Timms has carried out his review.


Rachel Maskell's reasoned amendment has been selected by the speaker for a vote.  This is the rebel amendment which has 39 Labour signatures. It will be voted on at the end of the dabate.  If it doesn't pass then MPs will vote on the main bill.


Debbie Abrahams, chair of the Commons work and pensions committee has confirmed this afternoon that she will "not be supporting the bill".


Given that the new amendment calling for the bill not to have a second reading got only 39 Labour signatures, most media commentators are predicting that Labour will get the bill though, though by a relatively narrow margin.  More than just these 39 Labour MPs are expected to vote against or abstain.

But the reality is that nobody can be certain, because the rebels are not a unified group and much may depend on whether Liz Kendall makes a better job of today’s proceedings than she did of yesterday’s.

 

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 hours ago
    According to the guardian,  Starmer set to offer Labour MPs further welfare bill concession
    Keir Starmer is set to offer Labour backbenchers a further concession over disability benefits in a last-ditch attempt to limit the largest rebellion of his premiership and get his controversial welfare bill over the line, Jessica Elgot and Pippa Crerar report.

    Starmer set to offer Labour MPs further welfare bill concession
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 7 hours ago
    As I sit here listening to the many, many cross party speeches, there sits Liz Kendall, busy looking at her phone. 

    I have no words…..
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 5 hours ago
      @The Dogmother @The Dogmother, I now wonder if Starmer was texting with her……  UN believable, the whole charade has made a total nonsense of everything we all thought Labour stood for, including having a brain…..
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 hours ago
      @G R She is not alone lots of MPs are busy looking at their mobile phones rather than giving their full attention to other MPs speaking to the houses. And far more MPs have not even bothered to attend the debate and will just turn up to vote as their party tells them.

      It is a very different scene to say the debate and vote on MPs pay ans expenses. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 hours ago
      @G R G R Probably googling all the big words like Compassion, Empathy,Disability, Poverty etc.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    Unfortunately i think which ever government it is now or in the  future, it will be people with mental health conditions who will lose out the most. It's disgraceful.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    For the Tories and Reform here's the danger: this kind of anti mental health rhetoric creates policy environments where funding is slashed, thresholds for care are raised, and public understanding is warped. When they downplay mental illness in public, even if it's for show, it does harm vulnerable people. Untreated or unsupported mental illness can lead to deteriorating public safety, not just for the individuals suffering, but for communities around them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    An excellent address as expected from Marie Tidball (via The Guardian) :

    1m ago16.33 BST

    Marie Tidball (Lab) says she is one of the few visible disabled MPs in parliament. She recalls being terrified during Covid, thinking of what would happen if she caught coronavirus, and what effect this would have on her toddler. She says “sobbed deeply”, and thought of the impact Covid would have on disabled people. In the first wave, they died in large numbers, she says.

    She will vote against the bill, she says.

    "The concessions are significant, she says. But they will still cut Pip for new payments, and push 150,000 people into poverty. She goes on:

    I cannot accept this, nor a proposed point system under current descriptors, which would exclude eligibility for those who cannot put on their underwear, prosthetic limbs or shoes without support.

    She says, if the bill passes tonight, she will look for further assurances if she is going to vote for it at third reading.

    First, the Timms review, “must not be performative”.

    Second, she says she wants the “sequencing” to change. She wants to report before the changes planned for November 2026 come into effect, so they are determined by what the review concludes. The government must consult with disabled people over the summer.

    And, third, there must be “a clear target for closing the disability employment gap”.

    She also says disabled people should not view the Tories voting against the bill today as a sign of solidarity. The Tories should be” hanging their heads in shame” at their failure to help the disabled, she says."
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    I still believe that insurance companies have a massive role to play in this attack on the disabled.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    The government is undermining itself by saying that Timms will lead a review of PIP assessments yet the 4 point rule is non negotiable and must now apply to future claimants. It's clear that the whole issue has been predetermined and the so called consultation with DPO'S will be another meaningless sham. 
    If this passes this labour government will not be forgiven by large numbers of disabled people. It will be a 1 term government which will be condemned to the dustbin of history as the most reactionary labour government ever. Labour is finished this will give a huge boost to the new left party soon to be launched by Corbyn. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    Guardian latest:

    Richard Burgon (Lab) said the government should go “back to the drawing board” and come up with a bill acceptable to disabled people. He said there was no need for the government to rush this through now.

    "If this were a free vote, then it would be hard to find many Labour MPs at all who were going to vote for it.

    This is a matter of conscience, and we need to be clear what we’re comparing here when we decide how to vote tonight.

    We’re not comparing the bill as the government intended, with the bill as is promised.

    What we should be comparing is the situation of disabled people across the country as it is now, and the situation of disabled people in the country which will come to pass if this bill is passed."

    Burgon is one of the Labour MPs who have signed the new reasoned amendment, tabled by Rachael Maskell.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    There is nothing they could do to this filthy bill that would make it better.
    The only way they can save themselves is to withdraw it. Otherwise they will go down with it.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    As usual Corbyn speaks true to the correct values the country should have.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    So am i right in thinking the tories believe all mental health conditions are either made up or symptom's exaggerated?  I have Bipolar disorder, psychosis, ocd and extreme anxiety that's trigger by those conditions.  The DVLA has in the past stopped my driving licence as the say my condition is so severe i am a danger to myself and others on the road, they claas my license as a disability license. I have been driving for 38 year and never had an accident but i am told my lifelong serve mental health conditions are so severe I should not drive. 

    So in the eyes of one government body the DVLA its life long severe disability, in the eyes of the DWP another government body and many MP'S mental health conditions are not disabilities and we don't need help either via the NHS or the benefits that i have paid into this system to get if i we did become so ill i could not work.  Can anyone else see the hypocrisy? 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Pixelmum Mental health services have always been the poor relative of the NHS and least funded. That could be a reason why there are so many people claiming for mental health conditions. Just a thought. 🤔 In my experience over the last 30 years the mental health services have not improved much.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Kevin. Absolutely, I suffer with several mental health conditions, not just a little bit of self diagnosed anxiety or depression. I think that's what's causing the problem, as "apparently" there has been a Huge increase in claims for mental health. So they are now trying to call everyone claiming for mental health conditions liars.  There will always be a very small percentage of people who will try it on, but that doesn't mean all the genuine claimant's should pay for it and suffer. Just because the government and DWP are incompetent and couldn't  run a P up in a brewery, the sick and disabled get punished. How can they possibly think that people with diagnosed serious mental health conditions are not entitled to support, they are a group of people who couldn't be more vulnerable. It's pure discrimination and EXTREMELY dangerous. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Pixelmum What is Broadmoor for then? The Tories speak from their behinds. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Kevin. Kevin I am absolutely appalled watching the tories oppinion on mental health, I honestly am shocked in todays society that these views are held be "so called" educated people. Absolutely disgraceful.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    Literally just posted on Guardian, Meg Hillier urges Labour MPs to 'bank' concessions, back government and continue to fight to disabled people
    Meg Hillier, the Labour chair of the Commons Treasury committee who tabled the original reasoned amendment to kill off the bill, but who has been won over buy the concessions, said that a week ago people currently getting Pip were worried that they could lose their benefit when they get reassessed. As a result of the government’s changes, that threat has been lifted, she said.

    And she said the co-production of the Timms review with disabled people could lead to “profound change”.

    She urged colleagues to back the government.

    I would always rather see a Labour government. Divided parties don’t hold power, divided parties don’t hold government.
    If we want to see our values played out in this country, I think we need to vote for this today.
    There is still a lot to do, the Timms review to take place, but major changes were made last week that have significantly altered this bill in a short space of time.
    I think we bank that and continue to fight with the passion that members have demonstrated today for the rights of disabled people.“

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Boo Such a comment reveals that she was not serious in her opposition to the bill. She is merely acting as a 'left' gatekeeper trying to save the governments bacon. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Boo Yes, I would always rather see a Labour government too, Meg.

      Any idea where I can find one?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Boo Why would we listen to a flip flopper who sold us down the river for a pile of crumbs?!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    Latest from The Guardian:


    "Ministers said to be close to offering further concession to Labour rebels, with crunch vote due in just over 3 hours

    Keir Starmer has approved a further concession to the Labour rebels, Jessica Elgot reports on Bluesky.

    NEW - I understand another concession to rebel MPs is possible to shore up the welfare bill.

    Likely to be linked to concerns around the Timms review which is one of the key remaining issues MPs have.

    Still major anxiety about this bill, especially with abstentions

    Stephen Timms, the social security and disability minister, is winding up the debate. If there is a further concession before the vote, that is when it will be announced.

    Arj Singh from the i has heard something similar. He has posted this.

    🚨Exc: ANOTHER welfare concession is being discussed with Labour rebel MPs including in crisis talks with Angela Rayner

    Two Labour MPs say a plan to change the eligibility criteria for PIP may be delayed until after Timms review."

    Interesting that Rayner is now 'involved'.


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 8 hours ago
    Interesting! Labour minister fuels speculation with seating choice

    The Independent’s political correspondent Archie Mitchell reports:

    A Labour minister has raised eyebrows after sitting next to Vicky Foxcroft in the Commons, instead of on the front bench.

    Environment minister Emma Hardy was spotted taking a spot in parliament next to the former government whip, who last month quit in protest at the government’s welfare bill.

    It is not known how much significance the move has, but it was seen as notable on such a significant day - with Sir Keir Starmer bracing for the biggest rebellion of his time as prime minister.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    Does anyone know when we will find out the results of the vote today?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 7 hours ago
      @Cuckoo21 Voting begins at 7pm so results should be around 10-15 minutes later.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Cuckoo21 Shortly after 7 pm, I believe.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Cuckoo21 Go to the Parliamentlive.tv website and you can watch it on there, failing that, it will be on the news I imagine straightaway when the vote has been done
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Cuckoo21 The vote is around 7pm
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    Watching on Sky.... many eloquent speakers and much passion and compassion - but the  lady in the sleeveless burgundy dress (who's name I missed) at 15.50 onwards  - ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT.
    Thank you.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 6 hours ago
      @Moose Yes, I thoroughly agree. She was Kirsty Blackman Aberdeen North (SNP), extremely passionate and spoke truth to power. 

      Fascinating to hear also, how we are perceived in the eyes of the Conservative MP’s. 

      This day will remain with us forever.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    Reform are also now reportedly officially voting against the bill.

    Like the tories, it's all for the wrong reasons, but if it crushes this bill, I'll happily take it.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    Have there been any clues as to which way the tories are voting? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    The irony, “Tories criticise Reform UK for voting against welfare bill - even though they are voting against it too
    Richard Tice, the Reform UK deputy leader, has said he is voting against the welfare bill.

    Confusingly, the Conservatives have criticised Reform for this – even though they are also voting against the bill.

    In a statement issued by CCHQ, Mel Stride, the shadow chancellor, said:

    Voting against Labour’s chaotic welfare proposals is no substitute for a proper plan for welfare reform.
    Reform have shown they are simply not serious about getting the welfare bill down. Their policy of scrapping the two-child limit would cost taxpayers £3.5bn a year.
    Farage’s fantasy economics will leave hardworking families paying the price.”
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 8 hours ago
      @Moose Perhaps we should have a voucher scheme for MPs expenses, and a limit on how much they can claim for various items.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 9 hours ago
      @Boo Mel Stride. He of the Vouchers Scheme?
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 9 hours ago
    A summary of Rebecca Long Bailey's speech from The Guardian (which finally appears to have found it's moral conscience over this empty sham of a 'Labour' government) :

    Labour's Rebecca Long-Bailey says there are 'endless' alternative ways of raising money, such as tax on extreme wealth.

    Rebecca Long-Bailey, who was runner up in the leadership contest won by Keir Starmer, says countries are judged by how they treat the most vulnerable.

    "We all know the famous quote, ‘The true measure of any society can be found by how it treats its most vulnerable members.’ It’s a litmus test, really, for the morality and integrity of our country’s values.

    Sadly, in recent years, the United Nations has already twice reported on the conditions for disabled people in the UK, finding that there were grave and systematic violations of human rights, and sadly, the bill as it stands today will worsen this situation."

    She says the welfare system needs reform. But these proposals have not been subject to proper consultation, she says. And she says there are alternative ways of finding the money.

    "The sad thing is, is that there are alternatives: introduce higher taxes on extreme wealth; end the stealth subsidies for banks; tax gambling fairly and properly. The list of alternatives is endless."

    She ends urging ministers to “pull back from the brink now before it’s too late”.

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