Labour is to revive the hated Tory plan to force banks to carry out surveillance on claimants’ accounts and give the DWP police type power to search premises and seize possessions.

The Tory provisions were contained in the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, but this failed to be passed into law before the general election and was therefore scrapped.

Now, however, Labour have announced that they are to include what appear to be very similar provisions in a new Fraud, Error and Debt Bill.

According to the DWP, the new law will give the DWP powers to:

  • Better investigate suspected fraud and new powers of search and seizure so DWP can take greater control investigations into criminal gangs defrauding the taxpayer.
  • Allow DWP to recover debts from individuals who can pay money back but have avoided doing so, bringing greater fairness to debt recoveries.
  • Require banks and financial institutions to share data that may show indications of potential benefit overpayments

The Tory bank surveillance provisions would have forced banks to monitor the accounts of all means-tested benefits claimants and report every time an account went over the capital limit or was used abroad for more than four weeks.

In late 2023, it was estimated that almost 9 million claimants would be caught in the Tory surveillance net, including:

  • 8 million universal credit claimants
  • 6 million employment and support allowance claimants
  • 4 million pension credit claimants

That number is likely to have increased by now, especially with the push to get more people to sign-up for pension credit.

Labour’s new bill will also give the DWP the power to search premises and seize evidence, such as documents, laptops and phones.

The Tory Bill contained similar powers.

It would have allowed designated DWP staff to arrest claimants, search premises and seize any evidence they found without needing to use the police. The DWP said this would put them on a par with HMRC and the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority (GLAA).

In an attempt to reassure claimants, the DWP today claimed that:

“The Bill will also include safeguarding measures to protect vulnerable customers. Staff will be trained to the highest standards on the appropriate use of any new powers, and we will introduce new oversight and reporting mechanisms, to monitor these new powers. DWP will not have access to people’s bank accounts and will not share their personal information with third parties.”

Labour claim that these powers will only be used against criminal gangs.  But, until we see the text of the bill, we will have no way of knowing whether the law will actually prevent the DWP using their new powers against individual claimants if they so choose.

The outline of the new bill was published today by the DWP to coincide with Kier Starmer’s first speech as prime minister to a Labour party conference.

In his speech, Starmer made only a brief reference to the new bill, saying, “If we want to maintain support for the welfare state, then we will legislate to stop benefit fraud and do everything we can to tackle worklessness.”

Back in April of this year the then prime minister, Rishi Sunak, outlined his plan to give the DWP police powers.  He did this whilst setting out his five point plan for welfare reform in a speech at the right-wing think tank, the Centre for Social justice, founded by Iain Duncan-Smith.

Just five months later, Keir Starmer has announced similar measures, this time in a speech to the Labour party conference.

The other four Sunak points were:

  • The WCA to be made harder to pass
  • GPs no longer to issue fit notes
  • Legacy benefits claimants to move to UC sooner and work requirements to be increased
  • PIP no longer always a cash benefit and fewer people to be eligible

We will now have to wait for Labour’s welfare reform white paper to see whether any of the four remaining points will also be adopted as Labour policy.

An outline of the new Fraud, Error and Debt Bill can be found here.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    with Labour's focus on getting sick and disabled people back into work....I thought I would share some experience to demonstrate how difficult this is going to be with employers.

    I work in the insurance industry and we have set up a number of networks under DE & I.  As part of the disability awareness forum, yesterday in our office we had an exhibition of simulation specs which tries to replicate the practical difficulties of living with severe sight loss depending on different ophthalmic conditions.  Regrettably very few staff were interested in taking part (we arranged this for lunchtime).  Most members of the public are very indifferent to visual or hearing impairment, UNLESS it affects them.

    The work I undertake is very visual in nature with reading vast quantities of notes.  The training tends to be printed forms to show you how to complete a task with computer screenshots (in tiny print). Staff who should be training are very reluctant to actually sit with you (I have a large monitor so that I can actually do my job).  Basically either you work to the requirements of the employer, or you are faced with the unpleasant bureaucratic minefield of the benefits system.

    It would really help if more disabled people (particularly with sensory impairments) were in senior managerial roles which would boost recruitment....but not hopeful this will happen in my working lifetime.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Matt also, if you have to use a screenreader, or any assistive tech, it's so easy to break it with a software update to the systems you use. you can do your job friday, on monday your access tech can't read the screen any more. and scripting costs a fortune. regarding disability simulation, people don't want to do it because it scares them.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    With love from Chat GBT... Bless it it has more morality and humanity in it than these old testament politicians....


    'The Calvinist work ethic, also known as the Protestant work ethic, stems from the teachings of John Calvin. It emphasizes hard work, discipline, and frugality as moral virtues, suggesting that success and worldly achievements are signs of God's favor and salvation. This belief has deeply influenced Western society, often tying a person’s moral worth to their ability to work and succeed. Today, this mindset still affects attitudes toward disability benefits, reinforcing harmful ideas that equate worthiness with productivity, rather than recognizing the inherent value of all individuals'



  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    People the only way to stop this is to keep pressure on MPs 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    I think based on this proposed legisation that The House of Commons Administration should be given similar powers in relations to MPs bank accounts 

    What does anyone else think 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Labour Out When the majority feel like this, it wouldn't happen. But if the majority are against something such as, being forced onto some voucher scheme they will wave it through with nothing to see here attitude . We had to make tough choices. Their nothing more than Blue in Red. What their proposing, shouldn't even be discussed. In one of the supposedly richest countries in the world, that being only 1% in it are. One little thing which will be obvious to most they have gloriously overlooked is making people wait for months agonising as to how their cope financially with these lunatic ideas in regard to a voucher scheme. Still, we live in a democracy...right! If they want to do everyone a favour, then, go after the fraudster's.  But no, just whack everyone in big swoop no matter what the financial or health implications this will cause. 

      I am sure why they play the game of, 'wait and see' . This will have had a very detrimental effect on people's mental health. And yet, they feel they have some magic wand called 'WORK' to fix that. Will never vote for these again...ever!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    If Labour brings in a PiP voucher system in any form then I will seriously have to think about moving over to the Green Party; such a thing goes completely against my belief system as a socialist.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    It looks like bank surveillance is here already.

    I was in town today and got some cash at an ATM to pay a bill and set aside some cash for next elec/gas top ups. I had to make two withdrawals to make the total I needed, because the cash machine would not dispense over a certain amount in a single transaction. The total wasn't more than the daily allowable withdrawal limit. And it wasn't different from my usual withdrawal that I do monthly and have been doing for some months now.

    Within 20 minutes of getting home, my bank called (automated call), to 'protect you from fraud'. They said they had frozen my bank card, which they claimed would be unfrozen after they gathered necessary information: who I was, and whether it was me that made the £XXX.00 withdrawal. They only asked about one withdrawal, though.

    I called my bank's Fraud Prevention Team with a list of questions. My card was no longer blocked, but what I learned does not sit well with me. The 'suspicious activity' was automatically passed (by AI?) to the Fraud Prevention Team, and my card immediately frozen. But why was it done at all? At first, the bank employee tried to tell me that the transaction was flagged because of previous fraudulent activity at the atm I used. Then, when I asked if transactions were less likely to be flagged as 'fraudulent' if I used the atm outside my bank, the answer was no. No transparency about the 'why', then. I was told that it was unlikely to happen again, but no guarantees. 

    I understand that people become victims of fraud in all sorts of ways, and that having banks protect their customers is a good thing. But not today, and maybe not in the future.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @naheegan Yes, i am now paranoid of paying in my 1p and 2p's accumulated over a month in case it prompts a massive DWP investigation.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @A Best of it, they hack the other side of the globe into your uk bank account.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @lesley-anne Thank you lesley. I was taken aback because it had never happened before and it was a common withdrawal for me.

      That's not useful to only have one atm in your town, and it having been targeted in the past by fraudsters. Have you watched any youtube videos that show how to spot a messed-with atm? 

      Good that you have a Post Office, it being a secure place for transactions. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @A Thanks for that information. 
      Your story raised a giggle. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @naheegan Nah. This has nothing to do with the DWP and surveillance of any sort. It simply has to do with banks taking extra measures not to breach data protection rules, and thus be liable to compensations.

      It also happened to me about 6 months ago, while I was trying to buy a new fridge at Argos when my old fridge finally gave up the ghost. The order with Argos failed to go through. Later, Barclays Fraud Prevention Team called me and told me that hackers had tried to withdraw a few millions of pounds from my account each time on several occasions, giving me the dates and exact amounts, and that they had blocked my card.

      I told them that they should have let them withdraw the millions but leave me anything that's less than a 1000. Guess what - all I had in my account was I think about 700 pounds.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    Sir Rodney the Charmer is now defending his son's rights to a 20K flat to stay in while disabled, old, and sick people cringe. If people are pushed into work will they also get free clothing allowances ?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Pete Starmer is worth about 7 million. So he wasn't able to provide somewhere himself for his son to study for his GCSEs.

      Imagine his son was in over crowded accommodation studying for his GCSEs

      Imagine his son was in a home that couldn't be heated studying for his GCSEs

      Imagine his son was hungry in a home that is relying on foodbanks studying for his GCSEs

      That's the situation for millions of people on this country 

      Yet he's cutting welfare and OAPs while doing a U turn on 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    My husband died this year. I am a pensioner who has had the winter fuel allowance stopped. I receive PIP as I have a number of heath problems. I  had 2 back operations last week. I am entirely on my own. Now I am worrying about being made to feel like a second class citizen if we end up with a voucher scheme. Better off Dead should be this government's mantra.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @The Termagant I am so sorry to hear this, I am also in a similar situation as you, and also on my own, so understand what you're going through, and I don't have any family or friends who can support me. I am so worried if they bring out the vouchers for PIP, and the difficulties I'll have in using these, I'm feeling sick everytime in my stomach when thinking about this and really struggling to cope with my daily routine with all this going on.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    We people on benefits need our own Union these days it seems. Could there possibly be such a thing ? The trouble being we can't strike. Or can we in some other kind of way ? We could sue though ? There have after all been sympathetic reports from European bodies on the way the poor and disabled are treated in in the UK.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @lesley-anne All they'd do is say, look how much energy they have; clearly they should be in work!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @phil I've hoped for a decade now that disabled people would press a class-action lawsuit against the government for breaches of human rights law perpetrated via so-called benefits reform. The U.N. cited this country twice for breaches of international law in their  treatment of disabled people. All we need is a solicitor willing to take the case on.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @phil If only this could be done,then millions would sign up to it and gladly pay a subscription. The sick long term unemployed etc have zero representation. News flash to the delusional out there.The new growth industry will be unemployment or low paid jobs equating to zero taxes being collected =major problem. The highly educated, I'd say need to think again. Have they heard of a little thing called AI, coming fast to a town near everyone and soon.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @phil Phil, all we can do is get out on the streets and march in protest, on our crutches, in our wheelchairs with placards. There is nothing the goverment hates more than seeing the sick and disabled on the march.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    After the cash-for-expenses scandal 2009, the press—highly influenced at the time—shifted their focus onto the disability community as a way to divert attention. Rhetoric around disability fraud, scrounges etc commonplace in the press. And could it be the case that we’re seeing something similar happening now, with Labour under scrutiny for its use of donors and resources? It seems whenever those in power face controversies, they turn the spotlight on us, forcing the disability community to defend itself instead of addressing their own serious controversies.



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    · 1 months ago
    Please see email below I sent to my Labour MP.  I have also asked him to forward it onto the prime ministers office.  Probably will make little difference but it helps to express some of the distress....

    'I wanted to raise a matter of deep concern following recent comments made by the prime minister about getting all sick people back into work. These comments, without careful consideration of the complexities surrounding disability and chronic illness, are thoughtless and deeply troubling to many in the disabled community, including myself.

    As someone who has had to navigate the disability benefits system for many years, I can attest to the constant fear and anxiety these kinds of policies induce. The challenges faced by people like me, living with chronic, long-term conditions, are not easily addressed by a blanket approach to "getting people back to work." Many of us are already doing a full-time job, caring for ourselves and managing our complex, distressing health conditions. These responsibilities require enormous physical and emotional effort, which often goes unacknowledged. A one-size-fits-all policy risks serious harm to our already fragile health and further marginalizing those with complex health issues.

    It is essential that voices like ours are heard, and that the lived experience of disabled people informs policy, rather than being sidelined by sweeping generalizations. We need policies that take into account the realities of living with long-term health conditions, rather than ones that assume work is a straightforward solution for everyone.'

    Thanks MP bla-da-bla....



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      · 1 months ago
      @CaroA I was constantly contacting my mp when they where in opposition but since they have got into power she no longer responds to any emails sent to her they are a bloody disgrace 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Arthur As Arthur rightfully says, and that, appears to be the harsh reality disabled and long term sick etc are going to be forced to accept, this lot, also! dont care. Dressed up as, ...tough choices... HAD to be made.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @CaroA Very well said. And well done for taking some form of action. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Arthur Thanks Arthur of course it feels like whistling into the wind but at least made me feel a bit better taking some action.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @CaroA Well put Carol but I suspect that the Mp you contacted already knows the reality that disabled benefit claimants have to live with.
      Unfortunately these politicians simply don't care. How can they when they are seemingly 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    Where can I find a Human Rights barrister to help with the inhumane treatment that will be inflicted. 

    Union members can opt out of their contribution that supports the Labour Party. 

    "Under section 84 of the Tradr Union 1992 Act, the trade union is obliged to inform its members that “each member has a right to be exempted from contributing to the union’s political fund”. The union must also inform the member that a form of exemption notice can be obtained from the union or the Certification Officer.16 A member may give notice in the form provided by the union or in a form to the same effect. On giving such an exemption notice, a member must be exempted from contributing to the political fund. The means by which the union should inform its members about their right of exemption are not specified" *

    * Source

    I have. 

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @ClaudetteN I think i read somewhere that a disability group were to bring a legal challenge to the government regarding their proposals ?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Disillusioned Totally agree mat! Politics is finished for me. And all other parties including greens. All parties r extremely similar it’s just that their names r a bit different… it seems to me we can finally see trough them ;) 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon Just like every Prime Minister before him, he has to appease party donors. Money talks. This bill will pass in some form or other. It all started several years ago when the government used a terrorist attack as an excuse to read peoples emails. Since then they’ve been gradually passing more laws to enable them to invade the public’s privacy. Privacy won’t exist in the future, it’s inevitable. There’s a current law in place that states that every individual has the right to live their lives without interference from the government. They have broken their own law multiple times and will continue to do so. If anyone even thinks of using this law in an attempt to combat the government’s invasion of privacy they will simply change the law. This country is a dictatorship dressed up as a democracy. I thought to myself, I’m going to trust Starmer, he will do the right thing in the end. “Government returning to service” right? Right? I’m let down again. This is the last straw for me. I no longer believe in politics or politicians. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @ClaudetteN Starmer was a human rights lawyer, you'd think he would be more compassionate. He appears to be the opposite from what I've seen so far.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    Will contributary based ESA and my PIP be open to DWP scrutiny?

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      · 1 months ago
      @JohnHenderson No. Because they are going for means tested benefits. Ours are not. New Style ESA is based on all the contributions we have made over the years. Unfortunately we get taxed on it. I always think we are left out when it comes to any extra benefits or payments. Never get any. Makes me angry 
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      · 1 months ago
      @PatGPT You can only leave the country for more than 4 weeks if you inform them and they agree.
       If you don't inform them that you are out of the country for more than 28 days they will question you, that's a fact.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon You're confusing PIP with ESA. The rule for PIP is 13 weeks not 4 and is up to 26 weeks if receiving treatment but the DWP will bend over backwards to prevent you from receiving treatment abroad under these rules.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @JohnHenderson I believe PIP was under the Tories plans, I am guessing it will be under this new Labour system. They said it was to make sure people in receipt of PIP weren't out of the country for more than 4 weeks at a time, as that's against the rules.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @JohnHenderson I too would like the answer to this question
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    Surely this can be fought against in court, isn’t it a breach of basic human rights? 
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      · 1 months ago
      @MrFibro Now is The Time To Take DWP to court and if necessary to Supreme Court n European court for human rights! If DWP is ignoring the courts than that ought to be addressed! And decision made in d court ought to be acted upon just as we have to do what courts has decided or we will go to prison. Therefore if they ignore the court the representative of DWP ought to go to prison,Order has to be made for DWP to change what needs to be done…
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      · 1 months ago
      @Anon If factual. We need to take them to court ASAP !!! 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Eva I also feel like this. Labour seems to be d same as Tories but the name is a bit different…

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      · 1 months ago
      @Alex The Tories bill, which was very similar,  had progressed a long way through the Lords and looked likely to become law. It was only thrown out because Sunak called an election.
      I do think this will happen, the Tony Blair institute has been pushing for greater use of AI to check accounts for fraud for a few years now. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon The humans right courts have been on the DWP's backs, but the goverment just ignore them.

      DWP are a law unto their own, and noone seems to be able to touch them.  Thats including high court judges, and even coroners.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    Fraud is an indictment of the system - not the user. 

    I’m sure given enough time some genius in gov will decide current system (s) not fit for purpose and throw more money at creating a new one. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    I’m sure I’m not the only one who has to use PIP towards paying for bills, food, clothing etc as I’m unable to work. Therefore cutting the money and offering vouchers would be of no help as I’m sure they would only be for mobility aids and possibly travel costs. I’m disgusted with the insensitivity of Labour but not surprised after their manifesto was devoid of any information relating to sick and disabled people. How can they be so mindless not to accept that some people are just too unwell to work no matter how much they are pushed and threatened. I became unwell in middle age, after working for 20 years, and am now physically unable to even care for myself let alone work. I absolutely hate how I have ended up but there is nothing that can be done to change that  I am no longer strong enough to fight them if they take money away for lack of working or offer vouchers only. It feels like we will be left with nothing until we slowly die and they don’t even have the decency to pass a bill to allow assisted dying so we can choose a quicker more dignified end. It’s hard enough just existing from day to day when you get to the horrible state some of us are in but they just have to make the stress and worry even worse. 



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      · 1 months ago
      @MNR Exactly. I say we give him the same amount of money that disabled people get and laugh whilst he cries. The worst illness he's had is nappy rash!!! Not everyone has good health all their lives.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @MNR Share your thoughts MNR
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @MNR Try not to worry until something solid is actually announced. There's so much noise about everything labour does or doesn't do at the moment. 

      The talk of getting people into work doesn't overly worry me as it's similar to the language used in the previous labour govt who seemed to then assess far more fairly than the govt who came next.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    They have always had the ability to access accounts if they suspect fraud. 

    The Tories wanted to access everyone's accounts all the time. 

    That's really not the same.

    I'm not sure it's helping anyone with this media frenzy. 


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Anon your right
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Reg No, the DWP do not have access to our bank accounts and,  as stated in the article above, they still won't have access.
      They have always had the right to review a claim at any time and request bank statements but cannot get them directly from a bank, as this breaches data protection laws. 
      The plans are for banks to use technology that will allow them to report suspicion of fraud to the Dwp. The DWP will then interview and investigate the claimant. 
      The main things the banks will be looking for are, cards used abroad for more than 4 weeks, large deposits or withdrawals of cash, transfer of money into the account from or to other countries and savings limits. 
      They aren't interested in what you spend your money on, there is nothing in the regulations that limits what you can buy.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Reg I also understood this Reg. I was told that they could always access our accounts if they really wanted to.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Reg No, the Tories stated categorically the DWP would not have access to anyone's bank accounts. They said it would be up to the banks to flag suspicious accounts and activity that could indicate fraud. The DWP would then investigate. This Labour system sounds the same.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    The French philosopher Descartes has said one day his famous phrase: I think therefore I am. Mr Starmer has changed it legally into: You are disabled therefore you are suspicious.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Natasha Fiddle his expenses? That's a new one. 

      This article seems to allude to the fact it's targeting the criminal gangs and suggests we wait and actually see what the bill says. Seems wise.


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      · 1 months ago
      @Neal I am shocked that Starmer like so many politicians can fiddle his expenses and apply guilty until proven innocent rule for most vulnerable people in society.  Unite Union published a report into UC pushing the most vulnerable into further debt.  Asking banks to act as informants is a disgrace. 

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    · 1 months ago
    No what they have planned is an eventual take control of what you can and can't buy. The DWP have been doing a lot of things....deciding how to pay pip going forwards, should it be bought first by the claimant and then they have to claim it back off of the DWP, or do they give vouchers. This process started under Sunak. I don't even own a passport because I can't afford one...then tell me I'm getting to much
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 months ago
      @Henry All vouchers will be good for is in a firepit in the living room to keep warm 
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      · 1 months ago
      @Henry Henry, I doubt that would stop government from implementing it though. Likely, someone has run the numbers and realised that paying PIP to claimants is much more than the costs to set up a voucher system and run it.  


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      · 1 months ago
      @andrew Vouchers would be a nightmare for their admin and would likely cost too much to do.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 months ago
    There is much opinion out there that the unions should pull financial funding for Labour

    Does anyone else agree

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