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PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
- JackieO
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1 year 3 months ago #280504 by JackieO
PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023 was created by JackieO
I would be grateful for help and advice please. I am acting as my husband's Representative and manage all the paperwork. His Initial Application was assessed on the telephone by a physiotherapist in relation to Musculo/skeletal injury (wrist and arm) and spinal condition, which impact on his ability to undertake personal care and also restricts his social interations due to a high degree of anxiety. The outcome of the initial assessment was an award of 2 points for washing and bathing and 2 points for using aids for toileting, with a statement that he has no functional restrictions (how is this assessed over a telephone).
There was no attention paid to the supervision, prompting and assistance that I provide for him as he cannot undertake the majority of daily tasks. Also, I have questioned, how can a full assessment of musculo/skeletal conditions be undertaken over the telephone.
I have also challenged the idea that a comprehensive mental health assessment can be conducted on the telephone (I am a retired Consultant Family Therapist), where it is stated that my husband was calm and not stressed during the conversation.
Although I challenged the decision through MR, the award was declined and the application was refused Both of the initial decisions focused on my husband being able to drive a manual car (twice a month for less than two miles), which meant he should therefore be able to cut vegetables to prepare a simple meal and wash and bathe himself using aids, both of which in my view do not equate to driving a power steered car. Also, that he is said to only be on mild analgesia and can walk the dog (short and slow).
I submitted a Tribunal Appeal and a G.P. letter (the GP. conducted a thorough face to face physical and psychological examination) and a telephone hearing has been arranged for 17/06/2023.
My questions are, will I be allowed to present my husbands case as his representative, as he can become very stressed talking to people, even family in bigger groups? Also, is there any advice which we should specifically follow during the hearing please?
Many thanks,
Jackie
There was no attention paid to the supervision, prompting and assistance that I provide for him as he cannot undertake the majority of daily tasks. Also, I have questioned, how can a full assessment of musculo/skeletal conditions be undertaken over the telephone.
I have also challenged the idea that a comprehensive mental health assessment can be conducted on the telephone (I am a retired Consultant Family Therapist), where it is stated that my husband was calm and not stressed during the conversation.
Although I challenged the decision through MR, the award was declined and the application was refused Both of the initial decisions focused on my husband being able to drive a manual car (twice a month for less than two miles), which meant he should therefore be able to cut vegetables to prepare a simple meal and wash and bathe himself using aids, both of which in my view do not equate to driving a power steered car. Also, that he is said to only be on mild analgesia and can walk the dog (short and slow).
I submitted a Tribunal Appeal and a G.P. letter (the GP. conducted a thorough face to face physical and psychological examination) and a telephone hearing has been arranged for 17/06/2023.
My questions are, will I be allowed to present my husbands case as his representative, as he can become very stressed talking to people, even family in bigger groups? Also, is there any advice which we should specifically follow during the hearing please?
Many thanks,
Jackie
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- BIS
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1 year 3 months ago #280511 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
Hi JackieO
Are you his official appointee or are you saying you're his representative because you do all the paperwork? If you are his official appointee, then you will be allowed to speak on his behalf at the Tribunal - though the panel may still want to speak to him themselves. However, if you are not his appointee, and unless he has a medical condition that impacts his cognitive understanding, they might insist on speaking to him for the majority of the time, with you being given the chance to add anything at the end.
Just be aware of some of the things that will come up:
Driving: - Claimants should not be penalised for driving a car, and it should not prohibit them from being awarded PIP - however, even Tribunal Panels sometimes say that if someone is able to operate a car - eg grip a steering wheel and be able to safely stop the car if a tyre blows out, or swerve in an emergency - (which is expected of all drivers) - they could use similar strength to cut vegetables with adapted cutlery. Do have a look at Gary's post that may help you address any such issues if it arises. benefitsandwork.co.uk/kunena/10-dla-esa-...8543-pip-and-driving
Medication: - Check out the maximum doses for any medication he is taking and be ready to answer if it's true why he isn't on a higher dosage. There can be lots of reasons for why people take certain doses - you just want to have the answer.
Make sure that you have read the guides on PIP Appeals to make sure you're ready for the Tribunal
Good luck
BIS
Are you his official appointee or are you saying you're his representative because you do all the paperwork? If you are his official appointee, then you will be allowed to speak on his behalf at the Tribunal - though the panel may still want to speak to him themselves. However, if you are not his appointee, and unless he has a medical condition that impacts his cognitive understanding, they might insist on speaking to him for the majority of the time, with you being given the chance to add anything at the end.
Just be aware of some of the things that will come up:
Driving: - Claimants should not be penalised for driving a car, and it should not prohibit them from being awarded PIP - however, even Tribunal Panels sometimes say that if someone is able to operate a car - eg grip a steering wheel and be able to safely stop the car if a tyre blows out, or swerve in an emergency - (which is expected of all drivers) - they could use similar strength to cut vegetables with adapted cutlery. Do have a look at Gary's post that may help you address any such issues if it arises. benefitsandwork.co.uk/kunena/10-dla-esa-...8543-pip-and-driving
Medication: - Check out the maximum doses for any medication he is taking and be ready to answer if it's true why he isn't on a higher dosage. There can be lots of reasons for why people take certain doses - you just want to have the answer.
Make sure that you have read the guides on PIP Appeals to make sure you're ready for the Tribunal
Good luck
BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- JackieO
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1 year 3 months ago #280574 by JackieO
Replied by JackieO on topic PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
Hello BIS. I am just registered as the representative, as I do all the paperwork and support and assist my husband.
Thank you for your very helpful thoughts, which I will certainly take on board.
Best wishes,
Jackie
Thank you for your very helpful thoughts, which I will certainly take on board.
Best wishes,
Jackie
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- LL26
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1 year 3 months ago - 1 year 3 months ago #280580 by LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by LL26 on topic PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
Hi JackieO,
To add to what BIS, the important thing is for your husband to be natural.
For you as reoresentative/wife take notes throughout, so you know what else you need to say and or ask your husband be prepared to correct what your husband says when you have your chance to speak. Try not to interrupt as tribunals don't like this, however if you feel your husband is getting very confused and saying everything incorrectly, or he looks tired or in pain etc then it is up to you to say, that your husband needs a break. If the tribunal won't have a break remind them that they have a duty to ensure all parties 'fully participate' (Tribunal Rules rule 2) and that as a 'vulnerable adult' which undoubtedly your husband is, that the tribunal must follow the Vulnerable Adults etc Practice Direction 2008 which basically requires the tribunal to make adjustments to facilitate how your husband can give evidence and present his case. Being natural is important- unless absolutely necessary your husband shouldn't take any extra medicine. He should do what he normally does the day before, and not to feel he should rest up. If he is pain free or not anxious etc due to extra needs or doesn't look tired because he is rested, this will give a false impression. He needs to be the real disabled him. I know this sounds rather negative, but the unusually peaceful pain free person isn't real and will struggle to convince the tribunal!
For anyone else, who is reading this and is having a face to face hearing, the following is also important- So if you said in the claim form that the claimant doesn't wash often or wears shabby clothes, then that's how he should be at a face to face the hearing. Similarly if he walks with a walking stick then he should use one to arrive. Likewise remember if you need to walk into a building, and can't walk far, get a lift as the tribunal will ask where you parked! Remember that if you are in person, then a member if the tribunal could be walking into the building at the same time so if the claimant behaves differently to what us described in the firm the tribunal will no doubt ask about this.
General advice at tribunals is to be yourself and don't mask your disabilities!
I hope this helps.
Good luck, JackieO.
Let us know what happens.
LL26
To add to what BIS, the important thing is for your husband to be natural.
For you as reoresentative/wife take notes throughout, so you know what else you need to say and or ask your husband be prepared to correct what your husband says when you have your chance to speak. Try not to interrupt as tribunals don't like this, however if you feel your husband is getting very confused and saying everything incorrectly, or he looks tired or in pain etc then it is up to you to say, that your husband needs a break. If the tribunal won't have a break remind them that they have a duty to ensure all parties 'fully participate' (Tribunal Rules rule 2) and that as a 'vulnerable adult' which undoubtedly your husband is, that the tribunal must follow the Vulnerable Adults etc Practice Direction 2008 which basically requires the tribunal to make adjustments to facilitate how your husband can give evidence and present his case. Being natural is important- unless absolutely necessary your husband shouldn't take any extra medicine. He should do what he normally does the day before, and not to feel he should rest up. If he is pain free or not anxious etc due to extra needs or doesn't look tired because he is rested, this will give a false impression. He needs to be the real disabled him. I know this sounds rather negative, but the unusually peaceful pain free person isn't real and will struggle to convince the tribunal!
For anyone else, who is reading this and is having a face to face hearing, the following is also important- So if you said in the claim form that the claimant doesn't wash often or wears shabby clothes, then that's how he should be at a face to face the hearing. Similarly if he walks with a walking stick then he should use one to arrive. Likewise remember if you need to walk into a building, and can't walk far, get a lift as the tribunal will ask where you parked! Remember that if you are in person, then a member if the tribunal could be walking into the building at the same time so if the claimant behaves differently to what us described in the firm the tribunal will no doubt ask about this.
General advice at tribunals is to be yourself and don't mask your disabilities!
I hope this helps.
Good luck, JackieO.
Let us know what happens.
LL26
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 1 year 3 months ago by LL26. Reason: Omission.
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- JackieO
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1 year 3 months ago #280648 by JackieO
Replied by JackieO on topic PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
Hello, Thank you for your really helpful thoughts, which I very much appreciate. Best wishes, JackieO
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- JackieO
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1 year 3 months ago #281118 by JackieO
Replied by JackieO on topic PIP Telephone Tribunal Hearing - 17/06/2023
Hello, My husband had his telephone tribunal appeal on Thursday 22nd June. We had prepared for the telephone call as specified on the letter for 11am. However, I checked the tribunal case listings the previous night and found that it was meant to be 3pm. In a panic, I sent an email to clarify the time and I also telephoned them on the morning of the hearing.
Following the 30 minutes to get through, the Judges list was checked and it was 3pm. This had a huge detrimental affect on my husband, who I had tried to keep calm for 11am, only to find that we had to wait another 4 hours.
At 14.55pm, we received a telephone call from the clerk to say that the previous case had over run and we would be connected shortly, yet again, another delay.
When the panel eventually came through around 15 minutes later, the Judge and the Doctor were very welcoming and encouraging . Ironically, the disability rights representative was neither of those things and in his questioning, almost seemed incredulous and ridiculing when my husband was trying to described why he couldn't bend his arms backwards or downwards to wash his self, or why he felt panicky in the company of others.
This man seemed suspicious that my husband wasn't taking prescription medication, that he hadn't had a formal mental health assessment and that he can't cut up his own food and is a messy eater, due to his wrist being in a fixed position from a terrible fracture years before. Even though I explained that I am a retired nurse, social worker and Consultant Family Therapist and that I can therefore support my husband to a large degree in these areas, the disability specialist almost ridiculed my husband for not being able to carry out these activities. I tried to explain, that my husband in my opinion has a degree of social phobia and is a reluctant patient and feels really distressed that he has now disclosed his difficulties to strangers and that is another reason why more professional help has not been sought to date.
We now wait for the decision, which the Judge said should reach us by letter this week.
Following the hearing, my husband just laid on the bed exhausted from the grilling he received.
Thank you,
JackieO
We now await
Following the 30 minutes to get through, the Judges list was checked and it was 3pm. This had a huge detrimental affect on my husband, who I had tried to keep calm for 11am, only to find that we had to wait another 4 hours.
At 14.55pm, we received a telephone call from the clerk to say that the previous case had over run and we would be connected shortly, yet again, another delay.
When the panel eventually came through around 15 minutes later, the Judge and the Doctor were very welcoming and encouraging . Ironically, the disability rights representative was neither of those things and in his questioning, almost seemed incredulous and ridiculing when my husband was trying to described why he couldn't bend his arms backwards or downwards to wash his self, or why he felt panicky in the company of others.
This man seemed suspicious that my husband wasn't taking prescription medication, that he hadn't had a formal mental health assessment and that he can't cut up his own food and is a messy eater, due to his wrist being in a fixed position from a terrible fracture years before. Even though I explained that I am a retired nurse, social worker and Consultant Family Therapist and that I can therefore support my husband to a large degree in these areas, the disability specialist almost ridiculed my husband for not being able to carry out these activities. I tried to explain, that my husband in my opinion has a degree of social phobia and is a reluctant patient and feels really distressed that he has now disclosed his difficulties to strangers and that is another reason why more professional help has not been sought to date.
We now wait for the decision, which the Judge said should reach us by letter this week.
Following the hearing, my husband just laid on the bed exhausted from the grilling he received.
Thank you,
JackieO
We now await
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