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@Gambolputty Back when we had working age DLA giving eligibility for means tested Income support on grounds of disability. We also had non means tested SDA and non means tested contributions based IB. So three different income replacement benefits for those who were incapable of working. With contributions based IB for those who had paid NI being the highest and having the lowest required level of disability. Means tested Income Support on grounds of disability being in the middle. And non means tested SDA for those severely 80%+ disabled or disabled from a young age, being the lowest and having the highest required level of disability.

For income replacement benefits the new planned system lacks the non time limited non means tested options. So there is no "enabling" the disabled to not work by giving them a non means tested income replacement benefit.

And the means tested income replacement benefit is having the disability premium eroded. With the eventual end game being no premium, no "perverse incentive" to not work for the disabled.

And then what? Well that will just leave PIP which is not intended to be an income replacement benefit. And PIP is being refocused on the most severely disabled. And going by the policy suggests of the various think tanks politicians listen to, the aim seems to be to eventually replace regular PIP cash payments for most, with providing support services or payments for specific costs caused by disability. So removing the last cash "incentive" to be disabled as a "lifestyle choice".

We are continuing to see the slow and not so slow dismantling of the idea that those who are incapable of working due to disability are deserving of an income sufficient to have a decent quality of life and take part in society. And instead seeing them as undeserving. And only giving them an income replacement that is means tested and set at a punitive poverty level designed to force them to work if at all able or be left in poverty, unable to have a decent quality of life and unable to take part in society.

And the politicians and media seem to have public support for this. Due to decades of scapegoating and demonization of the ill and disabled on benefits. So those unable to work due to illness or disability not only face poverty they face contempt and hate. This country has been turning into hell for years and is falling further into the abyss.

@James h Will vote green myself coz they are the least of the bunch tbh

@Neil @Neil I’m voting for the greens in may but I do have issues with immigration though where I live Blackpool south they will probably vote reform but they don’t realise reform will attack benefits and the fact they are full of failed old tories 

@Neil Neil perhaps better too look on the blackside and say that the Timms review could be bad news for the average claimant.

@Wibblum But aren't those who are currently Lcwra after April 6th ,I think, supposed to be left alone effectively?

@Wibblum Oh flamin wonderful 

@Neil Neil read something earlier online that said regular disabled not severe or terminal could have to engage with work coaches in the future so will no longer be voluntary probably come in after the Timms review.

@tintack Well put thank you. We can hope. 

@Catherine One thing I’m confused on is if the wca assessment is combined into the pip assessment/reviews will the claimant be forced to claim both uc &  pip? Or can a claimant choose to just claim pip alone (some disabled prefer just claiming pip alone (even if they would qualify for uc) as it’s not means tested and it’s less invasive on your life with no jobcentre appointments or claimant commitments)

@James h I am hoping my brother will not have a WCA reassessment before they abolish the WCA. As doing the reassessment would be detrimental to his health. And runs the risk of being denied LCWRA. Which, especially if they then have conditionality would most likely result in them ending up in hospital for months to years. Also if they were denied LCWRA that would presumably stop them being treated as an existing claimant for LCWRA/UC Health element so result in them getting lower benefits if re-awarded.

They also get New Style ESA having been passported from Severe Disablement Allowance to Contributions based ESA to New Style ESA. But also get means tested UC top up. So if New Style ESA is abolished and not kept as a legacy benefit for existing claimants. They should be OK as UC would just increase as ESA would no longer be being deducted from it.

My brother has a ongoing/indefinite PIP enhanced rate daily living award. So I am hopping he will be passported into the severe conditions criteria group (severely disabled for life never expected to be able to work). As PIP ongoing awards are for people expected to be disabled for life and enhanced rate daily living awards are for those with severe disability. And PIP ongoing awards are not routinely reassessed they are just light touch reviewed every 10 years, which is not a reassessment. So if not passported how would they determine what conditionality group to put them in. And is it really worth the expense of assessing people who are otherwise not supposed to be reassessed if the assessment will not change their benefit entitlement just their conditionality regime from the lowest level of conditionality having periodic chats with voluntary advice and voluntary offers of help to no conditionality leave them alone to get on with their life.

And hoping if PIP ongoing/indefinite enhanced rate daily living awards are not passported to the severe conditions criteria group. That the support conversations will be after PIP assessments so as they never have a PIP assessment they never have a support conversation. Having to attend and take part in a support conversation about aspirations to work would be detrimental to their health.

Also concerning is council tax reduction schemes and the elimination of a level of local government and the merging of areas with have different council tax reduction schemes. As that could result in their council tax reduction scheme changing and being less generous than the 100% reduction they currently get.

As for what happens in the future. In 10 years they will reach state pension age. So hopefully disability benefits will last that long. If they don't my brother will end up in hospital at least from many months to years. As conditionality or having no income or me going back to work or us moving home to release capital will cause him to become severely ill and need hospitalization.

What is also concerning is how much worse off younger disabled people are going to be in comparison to people who saw in the 1980s and 1990s the creation of more disability benefits and premiums to alleviate poverty and help them. As since then we have had the reverse especially since 2010. As we have seen disability benefits eligibility narrowed, benefits reduced and in some cases premiums and benefits specifically for the most severely disabled abolished. And that negative trend seems to be continuing with no end in sight. As Labour cut disability benefits and the Conservatives and Reform and the media deride Labour for not cutting more. And it is not just the cuts it is the scapegoating and demonization, the feeling society despises and hates those who cannot work due to disability, and the rise in hate crime and far right political rhetoric. The fear of what is next if our society continues along this path.

@John @John ok well what you saying is not far off the mark if this all goes ahead very scary and frightening times on the way so what are your own plans then?

@John No problem John.

@Kevin1342

@tintack I totally agree, but the language used by politicians in recent debates was carefully designed to frame PIP as an out-of-work benefit.  They want to sell the narrative of "if you don't get PIP you must be fit so why can't you work?" 

@John @John to be left alone to get on with life wouldn’t that be nice eh?you sound like you late 50s I kind of get what you are saying I think you should be ok and brother with pip indefinite I currently get lcw and £600 a month I been on it from the beginning might get lcwra reacessment this or next year been waiting 8 months now in the queue as far as the above goes well going to try and see it threw to the end that could be 2031 or sooner 2,3,4 years until lcw and lcwra is totally gone I only 51 by the time this gets brought in I will be 55 ish mild autism and depression I don’t think will be serous enough to get pip daily living so I might try return to work and do up to 16 hours I live in a family owned flat with low tariff bills and no mortgage so I plan to have nothing to do with the dwp or universal credit in future 10 years after that I will be 65 my pension won’t be until 68 so then I might just live off grid for the final 3 years in a van 

@tintack Sorry tintack that last reply I made to you was posted in the wrong thread to the wrong person. It was supposed to be for James H in the thread above. 

@Neil @Neil 😂

@Neil @Neil ok Neil have a beer or an orange juice and enjoy the World Cup tintack could be right Starmer could be ousted after may election and all this abandoned it’s all a shambles anyway 

@James h Sorry to be a pessimist but at least it's something I'm good at 

@Neil @Neil i not saying nothing more now until know for sure going to enjoy my summer holidays instead of worrying still lots of issues to be resolved what’s happens to the 500,000 existing lcwra current claimants and when will that be cut off and how?also short term cancer and mental heath risk and linking pip to uc well that can take months to sort out and even longer if have to appeal and in the meantime will be subject to a demanding work coach and all the misery that’s comes with that