The second reading of the Universal Credit and Personal Independent Payment Bill begins at 1.40pm today.

The vote is expected at 7.00pm

You can watch the debate live on parliament tv here.

We won’t be giving a blow-by-blow account of the debate, but you are welcome to comment on proceedings below the line.


4-point PIP rule is gone

The 4-point PIP rule is effectively dead as Labour makes its biggest concession yet.  Timms has just told the House:  "I can announce that we are going to remove the clause five from the bill at committee, that we will move straight to the wider review, sometimes referred to as the Timms review, and only make changes to Pip eligibility, activities and descriptors following that review."

Clause 5 is the 4-point rule, so that is now gone.  Instead, the Timms review will decide what happens to PIP.  And if, as Labour have promised, the review is genuinely coproduced with disabled people there is very little chance of such a rule ever happening.  And if Labour did try to force it into the review decision they would be likely to face an even worse rebellion than the one they have just suffered,

This seems to mean that the main purpose of the bill is now to take money from future recipients of the UC health element and to introduce the severe conditions criteria.


Jessica Elgot of the Guardian is reporting on Bluesky that the government are considering more concessions whilst Arj Sigh of the i paper says crisis talks between Angela Rayner and the rebels on changes to PIP rules being put off until after Timms has carried out his review.


Rachel Maskell's reasoned amendment has been selected by the speaker for a vote.  This is the rebel amendment which has 39 Labour signatures. It will be voted on at the end of the dabate.  If it doesn't pass then MPs will vote on the main bill.


Debbie Abrahams, chair of the Commons work and pensions committee has confirmed this afternoon that she will "not be supporting the bill".


Given that the new amendment calling for the bill not to have a second reading got only 39 Labour signatures, most media commentators are predicting that Labour will get the bill though, though by a relatively narrow margin.  More than just these 39 Labour MPs are expected to vote against or abstain.

But the reality is that nobody can be certain, because the rebels are not a unified group and much may depend on whether Liz Kendall makes a better job of today’s proceedings than she did of yesterday’s.

 

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 16 minutes ago
    We’ve had the lettuce saga of liz truss

    We now have the (bonkers) banana saga

    From a mirror journalist on twitter:

    Labour MP Mary Kelly Foy now speaking in the Commons on welfare bill.

    "I popped out for a banana earlier on, and when I came back in things had changed again, so I'm more unclear on what I'm voting on"

    🍌
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 17 minutes ago
    Boris Johnson once said If "I had some ham I'd do ham and eggs. But I don't have any eggs."
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 21 minutes ago
    So, vote coming up, on...on, er...um....Oh yeah, cuts, cuts to...um....to....to, ah, right, cuts to the universal credit and personal independence payment bill. And savings, cuts to savings.

    There's going to be a vote, any time now, on really paring down welfare reform, and really really reducing any possible cuts to welfare expenditure. Lets hope everyone gets behind it.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 23 minutes ago
    This has turned into a total and complete farse

    I’m not sure that anyone has a clue on what’s been voted on - a bill gutted to 2 pages or the gov u turning on their ‘concessions’ over the next few days as none of these ‘measures’ are legally in writing yet (and we are being asked to trust a gov dodger than del boys dealings!)

    Bin this bill, start from stratch and take time to do it right second time - can’t believe I’m having to semi agree with kemikaze 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 23 minutes ago
    Does anyone know if they will change the descriptor questions? I fear that they will completely change the PIP questions with the specific intention to make it harder for claimant's with mental health conditions.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 23 minutes ago
    We have a win - but now the 4 point clause is gone, i assume there can be no assurances that current claimants won't be affected by any future changes? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 25 minutes ago
    What about the Right To Try Guarantee? (RTG)

    Many people truly need that.

    With the latest concession ditching the 4-point PIP rule, I now hope the bill passes for the RTG to take effect ASAP.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 16 minutes ago
      @Anon Pip isn’t a benefit that depends on unemployment though! Many claimants use it to support themselves in work.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 33 minutes ago
    Once again they brought a mangling on themselves for no reason but mindless cruelty. Just go! You aren’t a Labour government and I utterly regret voting for you.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 40 minutes ago
    I've been watching the debate on TV and almost everyone is in agreement that the bill is a blank canvas. There's nothing written in todays bill. They can promise what they like but come through with nothing. The concessions they've made are to be taken in good faith...No thanks.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 41 minutes ago
    I think the government is jotting down ideas on the back of a fag packet and making it up as they go along. They'll do anything to get this bill through. The government need to scrap the bill and start engaging with the disabled community and charities.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 44 minutes ago
    I haven't a clue now what welfare cuts and policy they are all now suppose to be voting on! It is an absolute shambles. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 44 minutes ago
    Why don’t they just withdraw it and retain a shred of dignity?
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 44 minutes ago
    So the 4 point rule is dead now. What is actually left? This is a pure political, incompetent, mediocre farce. The bill is badly designed, poorly thought through and completely inadequate. Resignations please. Some of them are not fit for office 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 51 minutes ago
    Starmer is a complete failure and a fool, and this will drag him down. The cruel brute.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 59 minutes ago
      Government delays Pip changes in last-minute concession ahead of key welfare vote  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ckg33njxve0t
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    Diane Abbott is a legend

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 minutes ago
      @HL She's been one of our strongest defenders the whole time. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    Whatever happens , whatever the outcome, these pathetic politicians in office are making a mockery of this country and today the most vulnerable people in society are going to be victims of incompetent politicians and no way this going to save money.
    In the coming months the whole country will be facing tax rises more taxes and more taxes because the pathetic politicians in government can’t get it right from the start a total and utter Shambles…
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 48 minutes ago
      @Robin Hood Yes and all it does is drive up division and hatred towards disabled people. Because we will be blamed for the working people who  don't claim any benefits having their taxes increased to pay for us, because that's what will be portrayed. It makes me furious. Those people will then vote for the next government - probably the conservatives, who will try to cut benefits further. It's all a shambles.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    Are disabled ppl doing a "sit in at Westminster,? I just saw someone lie down on the floor, with others in wheelchairs and mobility scooters and others,surrounding them, security guy approached them and radioed through to someone. Then the camera shifted away. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    Just reported in the guardian, “How latest concession means government left with welfare bill that won't affect Pip eligibility
    Here is the Commons library briefing on the bill. It explains what all parts of the bill do. All the elements relating to Pip are in clause five, and without clause five, this bill will not affect Pip eligibility – now or in the future.

    The DWP may have an aspiration still to impose the four-point rule for Pip eligibility. But it has, in effect, delegated that decision to the Timms review, and if, as it say, that review is going go genuinely be co-produced with disabled people, then it is very hard to see the four-point rule being revived.

    And here is the text of the bill itself.

    Although this is the bill that will pass tonight, if MPs vote in favour, the Timms announcement means that, with clause five removed, all that will be left will be a bill affecting the universal credit.”
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 1 hours ago
    They've just added more consessions (6pm) a head of the vote.  This may mean that the 4 point rule never comes into play and there will be a delay implementing any changes to the criteria until after the Timms review. 
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