Two personal independence payment (PIP) daily living activities are responsible for the majority of 4 point or higher scores, according to figures released by the DWP.

If Labour’s proposals to limit the PIP daily living component to claimants who score 4 points or more for at least one activity become law, over a million current claimants who do not meet the rule will be looking for opportunities to legitimately meet the criteria.

However, according to data in the Pathways to Work:  Evidence pack: Chapter 2 reforming the structure, viable opportunities may be limited to a few activities for most claimants, as most activities have very few claimants who score highly

38% of claimants score 4 points or higher for activity 1, preparing food (36% score 4 points and 2% score 8 points).

32% score 4 points or higher for activity 9,  engaging with other people face-to-face (31% score 4 points and 1% score 8 points)

The next highest is activity 7, communicating verbally, where 14% of claimants score 4 points or higher.

In order of 4 point score, the daily living activities are:

1 Preparing food  38%

9  Engaging with other people  32%

7  Communicating verbally  14%

10  Budgeting  10%

2  Taking nutrition  10%

5  Managing toilet needs  7%

6  Dressing and undressing  7%

4  Washing and bathing  6%

8 Reading and understanding  6%

3  managing therapy  1%

It appears that problems with activities such as managing toilet needs, dressing and undressing and washing and bathing are not often accepted by decision makers as meeting the 4 point threshold.

So, for many claimants, showing that you need supervision or assistance to either prepare or cook a simple meal may be the best route, if it applies to you.

Following that, especially for those who live with mental health issues, needing social support to be able to engage with other people may be a possible route, though the law around this is complex, so giving relevant evidence is more challenging.

It is hard to see, based on these limited options for higher scores, how the Office for Budget Responsibility’s prediction that only 10% of claimants will lose their daily living award as a result of Labour’s plans will be fulfilled. 

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    That Silver Fox youtube channel mentioned a special advisor who resigned working for Rachel Reeves, that special advisor mentioned that these cuts are just and only a money saving exercise. Will that wash with the courts? 
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    · 2 days ago
    Am I naive to believe that some of these proposals will be watered down? Going full throttle on this will destroy the Labour party, don't listen to the Telegraph or the Daily Mail, cutting disability benefits is not popular, we do know that disabled people have families and or friends who see their plight and know what these cold and callous plans will do to them?

    Again this effects the person I care for, I know his family will never vote Labour ever again, disabled people as a voting bloc can sway elections if they voted for their own interests, food for thought.

    Last week I made a mistake in thinking that Reform might go softer on benefits, Richard Tice and Nigel Farage do not like people on any form of benefits, Clacton is one of the most deprived areas in Britain and one presumes that they rely on in or out of work benefits. 
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    · 2 days ago
    I have autism but it’s lower level however for the past few years autism all rolls into one their is no different level and once you have a diagnosis from nhs then that’s it their is no ongoing support so if I needed to get 4 points for the new pip criteria then how would I prove that I have been socially isolated for the past 28 years?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Old Mother I don't have any of those people and from September I won't have a therapist either because the NHS service I've used for 22 years is being shut down. I'll have no-one who can speak up for me.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @James h They can’t prove you haven’t though. Probes by assessors hone in on friends, social life - even marriage - partners etc. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @James h Admin - a lot of us are losing words when we post!

      My last lines read (before posting):

      I am wondering if getting a "Professional Opinion" might help fight your corner. You could tell the therapist, in great detail about your social isolation over the years & how badly it has affected you, as long as the therapist agrees to provide you with a detailed report at the end.

      Losing your current award would be financially disastrous for you, so paying for a few sessions of therapy could be an alternative and worthwhile investment?

      My reply to you contains mere pointers, as I'm not an expert, so please seek advice & guidance before spending any money
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @James h James, I'm thinking on my feet here, (obviously - not literally), but the thing that can give you a leg up (there I go again), in the arduous process that is PIP, appears to be / could possibly be "Expert Opinion". 

      Since you say that you don't have access to "Medical Opinion" perhaps there is another way?

      Is there an autism website or telephone helpline that could signpost you towards therapy / CBT? 

      I am wondering if getting a "Professional Opinion" might help fight your corner. You could tell the therapist, in great detail about your social isolation over the years & how badly it has affected you, 

       paying for a few sessions of therapy could be an alterative and worthwhile investment?


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    Maybe I am being a bit thick but a lot of figures going around don’t make a lot of sense. I have seen this elsewhere: Out of 1,608,000 enhanced daily living awards, 13% get fewer than 4 points in all activities.
    Out of 1,283,000 standard daily living awards, 87% get fewer than 4 points in all activities. According to above news in excess of 90% score at least 4 points in a single activity. Now I know there could be claimants who score 4 in more than one activity but it is hard to know exactly how many people are risk.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    Ive just put my lottery tickets on for tonight & tomorrow, we've probably got more chance of winning than getting the 4 points we should be awarded .
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    I remain somewhat optimistic that some of this will be quietly rolled back. Indeed the Labour Party will have failed at democracy if this ultimately loses more votes than it wins. 
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      · 2 days ago
      @Dods When you consider the total number of votes for Labour during the last election was 9,750,0090 or so, and that in fact it was less then Corbyn's 13,400,000 votes and there are 3 million plus disabled in the country it does not take a mathematical genius to work out that those disabled and their families will cause quiet a dent in the numbers. Labour's bound to fail in the next election if they lose their core voters while chasing Reforms voters!  They will neither get the right vote and will end up many of the progressive votes instead.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    DWP Decision Makers should have no role in WCA and PIP assessments and their outcomes.

    They've ZERO medical expertise, as most of them haven't even got their GSCE, yet they're allowed to mess with the health reports of health assessors. They review assessment reports and make a final determination about eligibility. In result, nearly 70% of decisions appealed to tribunals are overturned in favor of the claimants, and this is mainly due to the fact that decision makers have disagreed with the assessor's recommendations, and thus have awarded a different rate or denied it altogether, even though they've ZERO medical skills.


    Solution: Health assessors should be the only ones in charge of deciding the final award and rates. Decision makers, on the other hand, should be asked to go get real jobs.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard Thank you I will. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @@s123 s123, have a good look round the Benefits and Work PIP guides. They have very useful advice on the best way to put a request for a MR together - I used them when I asked for a MR.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Scorpion And this is where the money is wasted.  It’s the DWP/Gov causing rising costs.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Scorpion
      The assessors use the LIMA system and they choose which descriptor applies.  Each descriptor is allocated a set number of points.  You can apply for a copy of the assessment report before it even goes to a decision maker and it shows the descriptors the assessor has applied, therefore the points that are applied.  A decision maker can disagree and increase or decrease the points but, I'm confident that in a majority of cases, they just agree with it and sign it off.

      A quote from Yorkie Bard's post:

      "The assessor's company allocated a Senior Assessor to look at my case again and the upshot was that their recommendation to the DWP went from 8 to 16 points. The DWP agreed with the new assessment".

      The senior assessor that looked at the case again recommended to DWP that the points increased from 8 to 16 and DWP decision maker agreed.  That means the senior assessor did allocate the points and DWP agreed.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard Hello and thank you for answering. Yes she obtained a report and on it the assessor does say how she is struggling but has simplified the version to she can use Aids for washing cooking and putting on clothes. When my daughter told her that she has severe symptoms stage 4 endometriosis and in debilitating pain where her insides are stuck together. She will in a year have surgery to remove the left side of her ovaries and tubes. Then another year later to start removing the endometriosis slowly. Due to the sticking together she cannot stretch her arms upwards or outwards as it pulls her stomach which stops her washing herself and needs help with her hair back shoulders , and all to put on clothes. As to her making food she cannot stand or even sit unless it’s to 1
      Side on the chair for only a few mins and then the pain starts there is no way she can cook chop or even carry food. For a MR what is needed ? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    It's ridiculous how much of the assessment is simply a matter of opinion. An applicant says they can't prepare food, the assessor says they can and doesn't award or recommend 4 points. The advice for anyone applying for PIP should include asking your doctor to be very specific about things you have difficulty with so you've got a professional judgement to back you up.

    It's scary how deeply flawed and inadequate the whole process is 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @Anon The microwave question isn't taken nearly as seriously as it should be. My brother also struggles to use a microwave safely and has given himself food poisoning on several occasions. If his wife were not around, he will opt not to use a microwave at all. 

      The whole reason why only being able to use a microwave scores you points in the first place when it comes to PIP is because it is not possible for them to reliably cook food as well as a pre-heated oven. But people do not know this simply because of how convenient they seem to be.

      If you combine the way the heat is distributed by the microwave with the fact that the instructions on the back of microwave meals are mere guidelines and are not a solid reference (which can be a struggle to discern if you have learning difficulties), it can be very tricky for disabled people to work out if their food is safe for consumption. 

      And food poisoning is no joke. It can come with long term damage to your gastrointestinal system or could kill you. This is why supervision and having that second opinion is vital for a lot of people.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 1 days ago
      @tom Sadly this is all true Tom (and george25). The dice really are loaded against applicants. The best a PIP applicant can do is describe their problems in forensic detail and pile on as much evidence as possible. The outcome then depends on an assessor who may or may not take your side on the day and a bureaucrat who interprets the assessor's report correctly. It is quite plausible for 2 applicants with similar problems to get anywhere from 0 to 16 points. There has to be a better way than this!!!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Quietplease Problem is with a GP letter / report they will say that your GP is only reporting what you have told them as they are not with you at home even judges at tribunals would give that evidence much weight, unless it from a consultant who reports on the limitations you have and how that may impact   what you are able to do
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Quietplease If your doctor knows what you can do or not etc as most don't unless you have told them and  I never get to see the same doctor  even,  it's ridiculous all round . 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Quietplease Couldn’t agree more. I told my assessor that I couldn’t even use a microwave without supervision. They only scored me two points “for being able to use a microwave” anyway.

      I didn’t bother fighting it because I got enough points for enhanced anyway but I certainly have to hammer the point down even more if using a microwave won’t score any points eventually period.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    This Government must really hate disabled people!

    "More than 60,000 disabled households in England faced homelessness last year, an increase of nearly 75% since 2019, official figures show.

    Analysis of government data by the homelessness charity Crisis also shows the amount of social housing given to disabled people has gone down."


    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard I heard this too. It’s awful! If the proposals go through it will be much worse! 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    So they want people to be on a "pathway to work" on a benefit that has nothing to do with work.But these people who can't wash ,dress or need help with toileting cannot possibly join the workforce,and now can't get any points either.Do they see how ridiculous the whole thing is.I expect when it gets to the vote this will become a sticking point.I can't see this getting through the Lords either.Manipulating the points so sick and disabled people become destitute with no carer or health element, it's unbelievable.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Claire @Claire, agreed. We'd be like Katherine Tate's Nan!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 2 days ago
    I imagine hundreds of thousands of people are going to go to Tribunal when they fail to score 4 points in 1 activity. It will be chaos. Waiting lists for Appeals will be years. The Government really are clueless as well as nasty!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard Sorry, forgot to mention that my real name is Zayn Zachary.

      (My humour is the only thing still working).
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard Or, as was the case before the Supreme Court overturned the Conservative Govt, in relation to employment tribunals, that those who wish to pursue the DWP for PIP tribunals would have to pay to do so. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 2 days ago
      @Sick and Tired When that does happen, (& I agree it will), the Government will have an answer - you can be sure.

      I suspect they will declare PIP Tribunals too lenient towards appellants, too expensive or not fit for purpose & abolish them. 

      Either that, or they will limit access to Tribunals to those people with the initial Z of both first name and surname.

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