Advice please re continuing with ESA claims

I am trying to gather information to reach a decision as what will suit me best for the future.
Could you please let me know if in Support Group are you taxed on the benefit payments received? I think my Occupational pension would be taken into account for tax.

Could you please also advise me about WRAG and Support Group? Deciding to stop ESA claims would that mean if my financial situation changed again and I applied in the future for ESA could I get WRAG or Support Group due to low income and low savings if I did not have my current NI build up of contributions? I am unsure as to which groups I could get if I was to stop my ESA and then require it again in the future.

This is so complicated and lots to consider.

del wrote: I am trying to gather information to reach a decision as what will suit me best for the future.
Could you please let me know if in Support Group are you taxed on the benefit payments received? I think my Occupational pension would be taken into account for tax.

Could you please also advise me about WRAG and Support Group? Deciding to stop ESA claims would that mean if my financial situation changed again and I applied in the future for ESA could I get WRAG or Support Group due to low income and low savings if I did not have my current NI build up of contributions? I am unsure as to which groups I could get if I was to stop my ESA and then require it again in the future.

This is so complicated and lots to consider.

Hi d,

Whether your ESA is liable to Income Tax (IT) is not dependent on which ESA "Group" you are placed into. (WRAG or SG)

It is dependent on whether The ESA that you are paid is Contribution Based (CB) ESA, which is "Taxable" or Income Related (IR) ESA which isn't "Taxable"

See also : My IB was tax exempt; will it still be under ESA?

Even if it was CB ESA, this does not necessarily mean that you would pay IT on it.

As you may know the "Personal Allowance" (PA) for IT is currently around £200/Week, so if your CB ESA did not exceed you applicable PA then you wouldn't pay IT.

If you were also in receipt of an Occupational Pension (OP), this is obviously liable to IT . So if you were receiving OP payments, and CB ESA, the two amounts would be added together. (Much as with a 2nd job) If the total exceeded your PA then you would be liable to IT on the excess.

www.gov.uk/income-tax/taxfree-and-taxable-state-benefits

www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim76186.htm

www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/personal-allow.htm

There is a 365 day rule to entitlement to payment of CB ESA whilst not in the SG.

12 Month Limit for ESA(CB)

If you have exhausted your 365 days entitlement to CB ESA in The WRAG or at Assessment Rate of ESA, the only way that you can receive the above once more would be to be placed into The SG, or gain the requisite number of NI Contributions from employment.

Any time that you spend in The SG in receipt of CB ESA does not come off your 365 days entitlement.

If you had to make a fresh claim for ESA in the future, if you were not entitled to CB ESA, you would have to pass the means test with regards to capital, assets, savings, household income and any hours worked by a partner. (if you have one)

24 hour work rule for ESA(IR)

Asset rule for ESA(IR)

Obviously, any OP payments would be classed as household income £ for £ with respect to The IR ESA means test.

Even with CB ESA there is an £85/Week OP disregard rule.

In that, the first £85/Week on any OP is disregarded. Any amount in excess of the £85 is deducted at a rate of 50 pence in the pound from any CB ESA payments.

e.g. OP £105/Week = £20 excess. 50% of £20 = £10. Therefore £10/Week would be deducted from any CB ESA payments.

NI Credits accumulated as a result of receiving ESA will not give you future entitlement to payment of CB ESA alone. (You would also have to have NI Contributions from employment)

Ni Credits only go towards your State Pension. (SP)

You should be weary of closing an ESA Claim, as it could have implications on your SP, and any future entitlement to ESA.

bro58

Thanks bro, I already hold maximum NI for state pension through previous employment and ESA so when transferred to ESA Credits Only I will not really need additional credits.

Is it possible to get ESA again by getting into support group or WRAG if I decided I wanted to go back down that route in a few years time if my health does not improve and my finances fall again to under the limit set by DWP if

(1) I had not managed to get back to work

and

(2 ) can SG and WRAG be awarded based on capital and low income if I cannot get back to work and pay NI?

del wrote: Thanks bro, I already hold maximum NI for state pension through previous employment and ESA so when transferred to ESA Credits Only I will not really need additional credits.

Is it possible to get ESA again by getting into support group or WRAG if I decided I wanted to go back down that route in a few years time if my health does not improve and my finances fall again to under the limit set by DWP if

(1) I had not managed to get back to work

and

(2 ) can SG and WRAG be awarded based on capital and low income if I cannot get back to work and pay NI?

Hi d,

Looking back here : www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=top...01735&start=6#123491

It seems that you were in receipt of IR ESA in The SG, but lost entitlement to payment of IR ESA due to a change in your financial circumstances. Therefore, you could no longer pass the IR ESA means test.

(1) Yes, it may be possible to make a fresh claim for, and be paid IR ESA, as long as you could pass the means test at that time.

As I think you know, you would not be entitled to CB ESA unless you gain the necessary NI Contributions from employment in the interim period.

With respect to passing the IR ESA means test, as previously stated, any OP that you are in receipt of will be classed as household income £ for £.

Further if you have come into a lump sum, which means that you cannot pass the IR ESA means test at this time, the DWP will deem that this should last you a certain length of time.

Therefore, you may be best advised to keep receipts of any expenditure in case you are asked to produce them in the future to show that you have not spent any monies or squirreled it away to gain entitlement to IR ESA by deliberately depriving yourself of capital.

2. As previously stated, what group you are placed into (SG or WRAG) is irrelevant to whether you would be entitled to IR or CB ESA.

So if you were entitled to IR ESA in that you could pass the means test, or CB ESA in that you had acquired the requisite number of NI Contributions from employment at some time in the future, you would be paid either the IR ESA or the CB ESA, initially at The Assessment Rate.

Then if you successfully passed the ESA (WCA) Assessment (ESA50, etc) and were placed into either The WRAG or SG, the going rate for whichever group you were placed into.

If you are still having problems understanding how this works, you may be best seeking face to face advice from CAB or (Age UK if you are over 50)

Where to get advice

bro58

Thanks bro. When I started this thread up again I had noticed several posts appeared to be missing, my fault but have not a clue what caused that

My anxiety levels are bad enough so would not cope with disposing of money just to stay on ESA even if I wanted too so that is not an issue and as in the past have full records of spending and receipts.

Reason for trying to decide is that I am trying to escape the dreaded fear from DWP even although my health conditions are genuine I find it extremely difficult to cope with going through the ongoing DWP system. I think I could probably get along better healthwise if I disposed of DWP out of my life altogether to allow me to focus on my health It is not an easy decision to take when my health continues to remain the same.

My confusion arises from the fact I thought it was necessary to be in employment and pay NI to be accepted for ESA but think I understand that is not the case.

del wrote: Thanks bro. When I started this thread up again I had noticed several posts appeared to be missing, my fault but have not a clue what caused that

My anxiety levels are bad enough so would not cope with disposing of money just to stay on ESA even if I wanted too so that is not an issue and as in the past have full records of spending and receipts.

Reason for trying to decide is that I am trying to escape the dreaded fear from DWP even although my health conditions are genuine I find it extremely difficult to cope with going through the ongoing DWP system. I think I could probably get along better healthwise if I disposed of DWP out of my life altogether to allow me to focus on my health It is not an easy decision to take when my health continues to remain the same.

My confusion arises from the fact I thought it was necessary to be in employment and pay NI to be accepted for ESA but think I understand that is not the case.

Hi d,

Don't worry, it is a complicated system !!

Here is a list of all your previous posts when I put your username (del) into the forum search engine :

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=sea...ldforums=1&catids=10

"My confusion arises from the fact I thought it was necessary to be in employment and pay NI to be accepted for ESA but think I understand that is not the case. "

You would only need the requisite number of NI Contributions from employment for any future ESA claim for entitlement and payment of CB ESA.

A claimant can be entitled to and paid IR ESA even if they have never worked, as long as they can pass the means test when they claim, and have a current fit note from their G.P.

bro58