The Timms review has launched its abysmal “Workshop in a Box” consultation which requires organisations which choose to participate to organise and fund their own consultations in less than six weeks. The guidance suggests giving participants vouchers, but does not warn that these could affect participants benefits and there is no check whatsoever on whether the organisations taking part are genuine.

The launch of the Workshop in a Box consultation was announced in the  Timms Review June Co-chair update.  It is open to any groups which wish to take part and involves downloading Workshop in a Box resources from the from the .gov.uk website.

The resources include slides, facilitator guidance, information sheets and an “About you” form to collect information on participants.

The Workshop in a Box has already been criticised by disabled people’s organisations (DPOs), as the Disability News Service has reported.  Disability Wales has written to Timms to ask why DPOs appear to be expected to fund these workshop events themselves.

Vouchers for participants

The facilitators guidance actively encourages organisations to provide remuneration to attendees:

“Should I provide remuneration for attendees?

“Organisations are encouraged to recognise attendees’ time and contribution, for example through vouchers, refreshments or meals, or other appropriate forms of appreciation. There is no centrally administered provision for remuneration. Decisions on what is appropriate, and delivery of any such recognition, are at the discretion of the organisation running the session.”

However, payment for service user involvement is a fraught subject, with Disability Rights UK warning:  “this is a complex area and it would be difficult to cover everyone’s individual circumstances. We strongly advise you to get expert advice about your own personal financial circumstances before accepting payment for your involvement.”  

Many of those who are encouraged to take part in the workshops are likely to be in receipt of other benefits as well as PIP, yet there is no warning to facilitators that vouchers can be considered to be earnings by the DWP, may affect some benefits and that in some cases claimants may need to get permission from their work coach before participating. 

Bogus responses

The response form which must be completed by organisations has 90 questions to be answered.

The first 9 questions ask for details such as the name of your group, what region you are active in, whether the workshop was online or in-person and whether participants were told how information collected would be used.

There are no questions that ask about the contact details of the organisation, the details of the person submitting the information or any other questions that would establish that the responses are genuine and that the group actually exists. 

Only the last two questions ask if you would be willing to be contacted by the Timms review and if so, to give an email address, but this is entirely optional.

Whilst it is absolutely reasonable to allow individuals who respond to a consultation to be anonymous, it seems extraordinary that the review is collecting responses from organisations without any requirement that the organisation provides verifiable information that it isn’t bogus

Unguided summaries

The next 45 questions are monitoring issues, wanting to know about the number of participants who are of a given age, ethnicity, gender identity and so on.

There are then questions about how many participants said they were disabled, a carer, an adviser and so on.

It is not until question 66 that the response form seeks information about what people actually said about PIP.

Some of the questions require the organisers to give numbers for how many people

  • Strongly disagree
  • Disagree
  • Do not agree or disagree
  • Agree
  • Strongly Agree

with statements such as “The PIP process is accessible”.  The organisers then have to give a summary of the reasons participants gave for their answers.

Others require the organisers just to summarise the participants responses to questions such as: 

“What do people use PIP for? Why is PIP important for them?”

“Are there parts of your life or circumstances that affect the extra costs of Disability? How do they affect how you use PIP?”

“What do you think PIP should help people to do?”

No guidance is given on how to summarise responses, only that “We do not require verbatim feedback from discussions and are asking for summaries that capture the conversation. You can however include some illustrative quotes if you would like to do so.”

This means that the summaries are highly subjective and do not necessarily capture all the views that were given.

In total, just 22 of the questions are dedicated to evidence about PIP itself, compared to 68 which are essentially admin questions.

Is it lawful?

The workshop resources were made available today, 8 June.  All results must be submitted by 17 July.  This gives organisations less than six weeks to organise workshops, invite participants, collate responses and submit them.

In the past, where government has consulted on legislation in a way that was unfair, courts have overturned that legislation.  In general, three months has been seen as a reasonable time to allow people to respond to a consultation.  Timms is not calling the “Workshop in a Box” a consultation, just as the extraordinarily complex “Call for evidence” was not called a consultation.

But it may be that if legislation is based on the results of the Timms review, a court may hold that these processes are, in reality, consultations and that they are manifestly unfair.  It’s a very long shot indeed, but worth bearing in mind when what is looking increasingly like a rushed and rigged review finally reports.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 17 days ago
    I would like to take part in a Timms Review 'Workshop in a box'.  However, I have not seen any advertised locally or any online.  I did an internet search and it only came up with two events which were in another part of the country and by organisations representing people with specific disabilities I do not have.  I agree that organisations have not been given sufficient time to organise these workshops.  
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 19 days ago
    Employment support already exists. There are good schemes which have been implemented for years for mental health, specifically the Individual Placement Support scheme which, when done well, can make a real difference. I have seen first hand examples in Portugal and Ireland, and in the UK. I would also suggest that such schemes, because they are very supportive could work for many, regardless of age. The Dutch model favoured by Millburn is aggressive and that's problematic but hey ho, we're dealing with soundbites here and that too is problematic.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 19 days ago
    Hi, voucher payments should not be a problem. It's a method used extensively in research, to "compensate" people for their time, as participants or as patients involved in supporting studies. Amounts are also usually quite small and the DWP does not normally need to know unless these are going to be regular payments. One off payments are also meant to be disregarded.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 18 days ago
      @Debbie Sykes @Debbie, I think pipsqueak was referring to vouchers for participating in discussions or other research, and whether it would affect means-tested benefits.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 19 days ago
      @pipsqueak Am I clear that there is the option that we're back to giving out vouchers for claimants on PIP? This just wouldn't work for myself and probably others.. I am a wheelchair user with an over the knee amputation.. I m in remission from bowel cancer and my op means I cannot dress below my waist.. I also need help in the shower. I suffer from a perineal hernia which means I can't sit for long and have to lie down. I cannot cook for myself as I can't see the hob, making it unsafe. I cannot use the microwave as this contains hot food which I cannot pick up, which again is unsafe.. My 80 year old Auntie cares for me every day which I pay her for. If she has to go anywhere to pick me anything I should need, I give her petrol money. I have a cleaner every 2 weeks and someone to care for my garden. I sometimes need to hire a wheelchair taxi in the case of medical appointments. How would I pay these people in vouchers?

  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 21 days ago
    Two big reasons why this Government and those that follow wanting to cut working age benefits: one, the cost of the state pension, with a demographic 'time bomb' where there will be fewer workers to pay older people's state pension; two, more people in work will pay more tax.

    Add to this USA becomingly increasingly isolationist then Britain, France and Germany will have to make up the shortfall in NATO expenditure.

    It's ironic that the next GE will coincide with the fiftieth anniversary of Margaret Thatcher being elected. 2029 could be the most consequential election since 1979.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 22 days ago
    @A There is no need to apologise for expressing your views.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 22 days ago
    "Burnham insists the ballooning welfare bill, which is set to reach £406bn by the end of the decade, can be brought down without what he calls “crude cuts”. “We do need to get the welfare bill down, but that means, to me, not crude cuts, but rethinking the education system, rethinking how we support young people in these modern times,” he said."

    I would suggest that this does not sound like Burnham is in favour of the aggressive, punitive approach taken by Starmer and co. last year, and that a Burnham government might in fact amount to a considerable improvement in the prospects for many disabled people.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 19 days ago
      @Paul OSR have said the welfare budget will remain steady until 2034. These politicians lie. Kemi Badenoch is currently under investigation regarding it. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 21 days ago
      @John John, please accept again my sincere apologies you have a more detailed knowledge as I have autism and in my later middle age I feel very stressed, worried, as I am fed up with all political parties except the Greens for targeting the sick and disabled. I cannot work and disagree with the unemployment insurance benefit nonsense as there are just over 500,000 in the same situation myself and I feel powerless as I care not for my own wellbeing but more  for all disabled people and how they are always impacted. I am very very scared and mentally at a  very low point. Apologies to you Sir and the Benefits and Work Team who work so tirelessly to highlight issues and try so hard  to help disabled people. MPS will never understand what living off the state and how humbling and for me I feel ashamed of myself I cannot do more to help those less fortunate and disabled in society. I have a moral and social conscience that want disabled people to be left alone and treated with fairness, dignity respect and enough to live in society today.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @Paul I have heard nothing from Burnham that seems to contradict Starmer's current welfare plans. Which have the aim of reducing benefits and increasing help towards and into work. And nothing from Burnham that contradicts the false narrative of having to act due to a ballooning welfare bill. Working age welfare spending as a percentage of GDP is actually stable and is forecast to remain stable or fall. The problem in regards to welfare spending is pensioners.

      Burnham's "moving towards a more preventative state that makes the right investments to support people into work". To me just sounds like redefining more people with disabilities as expected to work. So justifying reducing their benefits and increasing their engagement with the DWP. Which is Labour's current plan with abolishing the WCA and reforming PIP, and was Labour's plan last time they were in power when they replaced the various Incapacity Benefits with Employment Support Allowance.

      It is not like he has ruled out making cuts. Just crude cuts, by which I think he means just cuts in benefits without increased help towards and into work.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @Paul While I appreciate your honest opinion Sir,Burnham even before has been elected as an MP has backtracked on some of his official policies and politics compensation to waspii women e.g?. Again apologies to one and all and to all at Benefits and Work Team but I don't trust any politician apart from another politician who shall remain nameless. Westminster Politicians on nearly 100k a year do not live in the harsh reality of living on benefits.I totally respect your views Sir but once they get into power look what Starmer promised? Enough Said and what happened speaks for itself ordinary people especially disabled people pay the price which is totally morally and ethically wrong Again Sincere apologies to you all and the hard working decent Benefits and Work Team 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 22 days ago
    If someone is lucky enough to get a call from DWP with a pre tribunal offer when is that likely to occur, after you've sent paperwork to the CTS or before or after a tribunal place and time has been decided?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 21 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Neil won my review got awarded standard rate Pip for six years.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @sara Already appealed my Mr and an onto waiting for a tribunal date and location like I said do I suppose it's a case of wait and see AND HOPE?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @Neil (real one) It can happen any time after you've appealed the Mandatory Reconsideration, ie sent your appeal form.
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    · 23 days ago
    Labour cannot be trusted. That is why the Makerfield by election is a turning point for Labour. Burnham cannot be trusted, like Starmer he changes his mind just like that, Better voting for the Greens or the Liberal Democrats. Lobby your local Labour MP, all disability protest organisations. Write to a newspaper and protest these are the only ways to stop this. The Liberal Democrats came up with the idea of war bonds as an alternative. Touching Welfare is a political choice the Government gave away £4.5 Billion to a national road  safety project. So speaks for itself. Use your democratic right to highlight these to the relevant people and stop these welfare changes taking place. Apologies to the Benefits and Work Team. I care for the welfare and wellbeing of all disabled people being disabled myself.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @John John. While I agree with your point the real truth is being hidden. Just watched a BBC Politics programme . The sick and disabled are again being made scapegoats and the real story of why Healey resigned was the Chancellor refusing to allow John Healy to access a loan from a European Bank for defence spending as highlighted below. Two presenters targeting the sick and disabled as a financial resource is both morally and ethically wrong. No one political party except the Greens can be trusted . Here is the article below if you read it. Ed Davey again mentioned on the BBC political programme the idea of war bonds to fund the military budget. I totally agree with your comments but the only answer alternative to Government is self regulated citizens assemblies to govern the country. Ordinary people from all walks of life making competent decisions that benefit society Sir. Apologies to Benefits and Work Team.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 22 days ago
      @A Unfortunately in this particular byelection a vote for anyone other than Labour will effectively be a vote for Reform, and we know they want to take ALL benefits from everyone. They hate disabled people more than anyone, remember the fascists always get rid of the most vulnerable first.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @A LibDem leader Ed Davey was a minister in the Coalition government that cut disability benefits. And at the time the LibDems advocated for and voted for the cuts and sought to take credit for the cuts. Saying they were the party of welfare reform and the Tories were taking credit for their policy. Now they rewrite history and claim they sought to reduce the cuts the Tories wanted. And say they are the party that cares about disabled people. But as recently as last year Ed Davey said PIP is widely being abused and far too many people are receiving PIP and that a LibDem government would stop that.

      Green leader Zack Polanski was a ardent LibDem activist and supported austerity including the welfare cuts. He only left the LibDems when he was not selected to stand as a LibDem general election candidate. Now he claims to have realised his previous opinions were all wrong and he is further left than Labour and opposes welfare cuts. But will do a general election deal with Labour. Not standing Green candidates in some constituencies if in return Labour don't stand candidates against him and his friends. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 23 days ago
    Frankly I'm tired of hearing about defence spending from these warmongers, we already allocate over £60 billion annually for defence spending yet they want more, more, more at the expense of the sick and disabled. It disgusts me. The media whips up a frenzy that we need to throw more and more money into the military industrial complex, its ridiculous.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 23 days ago
    Telegraph today Burnham pledges to cut welfare for defence spending 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @Chips and gravy It will all be Private Pensions and Health Insurance like you have said in the future and a smaller state who wont be able too pick up the bills,possibly like America.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @Charger 7 Last year alone we paid over £66 billion on defence, they want more?!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @Charger 7 @Charger 7 doesn’t surprise me these attacks are becoming daily burnham today then probably somebody else tomorrow then back to milburn again I would imagine it’s the 18-24 years old with depression and anxiety that gets hit first 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 24 days ago
    Andy Burnham has pledged to cut welfare spending to fund more defence spending if he becomes PM. 

    On his planned cut to welfare spending he said

    “I am not squeamish about saying that the plan would be to reduce the welfare bill. Not at all.

    "But it is not the traditional Westminster way of just crude cuts, short-term crude cuts that then create a backlash and create more political turbulence.

    "It is actually going to do things that will actually reduce the benefits bill, which is moving towards a more preventative state that makes the right investments to support people into work.”
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Neil it's Ruddy alarming.
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      · 23 days ago
      @John So in other words an infinite amount of money to fund bombs, weapons, death and destruction, yet no money for sick, disabled and the most vulnerable in society.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @John So basically we're gonna get screwed by a labour traitor to the sick and disabled? Here's hoping his stitch up isn't quite as bad as were fearing but I doubt it to be honest. I'm sorry but I can't stop shaking right now
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 24 days ago
    Another development McSweeney has been brought back to advise Starmer. Has the PM not learned his lesson from the last time ? I despair and I am really really scared that Starmer may again target the disabled and will target them and not leave them alone ?. Apologies to the Benefits and Work Team but lobby your Labour MP to rally against any future welfare proposals and the disability organisations. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @Matt @Matt I think your right their will be no state pension left for that generation and also will have to start paying for some private health insurance I recently spent some time in nhs accident and emergency I had an hour wait for an ambulance and spent a full day in a trolley on a corridor in the hospital before I even was seen 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 23 days ago
      @A If Burnham wins on Thursday, Starmer with McSweeney will be out by the Autumn

      Regrettably, welfare 'reform' is on its way whether we like it or not. 

      For those like myself who are in employment and PIP this will result in me seen as a 'job huggers'. I still have about a decade before I get my paltry state and occupational pension (which will be taxed). I work with a lot of under 35's. Heaven knows what 'welfare' state will exist when they retire (if they are allowed to).
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 24 days ago
    I saw a concerning article today headlined "Labour benefits revolt ringleader says she believes MPs are now ready to back welfare cuts", I must admit I'm getting worried.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Lux If I remember correctly Meg hillier was a rebel ringleader but switched sides after the first ‘can’t even be could lukewarm’ gov concessions at the second reading of the uc & pip bill last summer (before the 1st parliamentary vote happened)

      Does not surprise me one bit that she’s pushing in the knife after that - there are several other rebels that I would be much more worried about if they said something like this.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Lux This is of no surprise to me. Welfare is always the first target and the disabled, the poor and the vulnerable. Maskell said in a radio interview she would organise another protest amongst Labour MPS. The Liberal Democrats came up with a sensible solution for defence bonds to be issued as a means of covering the shortfall. The disabled ,poor, and vulnerable have little money to live on and the lack of investment was down to the Conservatives. So the Conservatives should be questioning themselves as to why they did nothing. Another former Conservative Chancellor also targeted welfare but he gave away £20 Billion before the last government was voted out of power. So Apologies to the Benefits and Work Team all disabled people need to be treated with respect, fairness and dignity with enough to get by on. Life being disabled is not a choice neither should the disabled, poor and vulnerable have to pay the bill. Lobby your MP and local disability organisations is the best solution. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Lux This is the article. It's from the Mail but even so it seems to be fairly credible, unfortunately. Some might be able to take heart, though. Apart from the fact it mostly revolves around the recent Milburn report into NEETS, when she does mention older claimants she gives the impression she wouldn't vote for anything that uses sanctions ("We know sanctions don't work") and basically says any conditionality "has to be done right". So there might still be some checks and balances brought to bear by backbenchers, in the process of any further changes being made. But it's dismaying to read that she's involved in making decisions about defence spending, that row they're having in the cabinet. Because the implication seems to be that she would prioritise those over defending benefits cuts. And actually, she was one of the first opposing the cuts last year to crumble. I bet her and Rachel Maskell, for example, haven't been singing from the same hymn sheet for a while 🙄😔


  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 25 days ago
    Apologies for my bad memory but is Lcwra change Ng to UC health from 2027/2028 or yd it happening later than that? I can remember for the life of me what's likely coming and I'm so scared over this I really am.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Not received my Pip Review letter yet about decision,expecting it by post so it's in the Lap of the Gods.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Neil (real one) This would happen when the WCA is abolished. But the exact timeline remains uncertain. DWP officials have stated that abolition is linked to broader welfare reforms, and are currently waiting on the Timms Review into PIP before fully detailing how the new system will function.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 27 days ago
    When are they going to see that pip, unrelated to work, earnings or capital is going to be impossible to link to uc/uc health, which is related to employment and earnings/capital, or to new style jsa/esa, which are related to employment and earnings/capital or ni contributions. I just don't see how all the benefits can be connected.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 19 days ago
      @keepingitreal If PIP becomes means tested then that would mean my savings to pay for respite/full care would be blown out of the water. My Auntie who is 80 years old cannot care for me for forever. I live on my own and my health is deteriorating, which is inevitable that I will need to pay for my care in a care home. PIP wouldn't be able to afford me that care..
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @John
      I have no doubt that eligibility criteria for any welfare benefit could be changed. That is an ever present threat.

      However, I believe there are too many conceptual flaws and administrative pitfalls to make viable tying pip into both work related and means tested welfare. Putting pip claimants at the mercy of DWP work coaches is an example of where applying such far reaching changes all at once would hit a wall.

      Means testing pip seems to me to be far more straightforward, but that has been continually resisted and denied as an option on many fronts.

    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @John Fools errand? Haha this government in full FOOLS 
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      · 25 days ago
      @TheLordProtector A total waste of space.END OF.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @keepingitreal My point is simply that abolishing the WCA and using a single disability assessment PIP for both a non means tested cost of disability benefit and a means tested income replacement benefit is not a problem. The disability threshold used in the disability assessment is the problem. And that is being designed to save money. So people are justifiably fearful.

      Will they be deemed amongst the most disabled? Or will they be deemed disabled enough to qualify but not amongst the most disabled and potentially see their benefits reduced? Or will they be deemed to be amongst the less disabled and lose all their disability benefits and premiums and be at the mercy of DWP work coaches? 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 28 days ago
    Yet again ignoring the elephant in the room of the millions on UC health but not pip
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 27 days ago
      @keepingitreal I am so hoping they can't anchor ANY OF IT
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 27 days ago
      @Sara The very fact there is so much to consider makes me increasingly confident the government wont be able to action much.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 28 days ago
      @Sara Yeah the consultation does not even mention that issue let alone ask people for their opinion on it.

      About 1.5 million are on UC health or ESA but not on PIP/DLA daily living component.

      And you have all 18-21 year old's if they raise the age to claim UC health.

      And you have all the new style ESA claimants who are not on UC health as they do not meet the means testing. If they abolish new style ESA and instead have a 6 or 12 month time limited Unemployment Benefit.

      Before you get to the people on PIP who might lose it depending on the Timms PIP review new assessment system. 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 28 days ago
    Do we know yet when the timms review initial findings report is due to be published (like the milburn neet study inital findings doc that was published in the last fortnight)

    I presume that inital findings & recommendations won’t be published at the same time and the timms review recommendations publication is apparently due this autumn (rumours are in November but as this gov seems to like rushing with little thought I still think sept/oct is an option)

    But going by the above if the initial findings are published separately my bet would be that they’ll do so mid August during summer recess to avoid immediate parliamentary scrutiny 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 27 days ago
      @Tree top trimmer I returned my form four weeks ago,so I would expect a quick response.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 27 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Neil your a Ruddy good bloke.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 28 days ago
      @TheLordProtector How long since you filled in the form? I returned mine last week and will be on edge until I have response.  
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 28 days ago
      @Neil (real one) Got a text from Pip this morning saying they had reached my Review decision and i will get my decision in a letter within two weeks.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 28 days ago
      @John This is sounding so dangerous to people's mental health and well-being. I can see there being a repeat of the Tories attempt at anything like this in the 2010s where as a result of their endeavours it ked to hundreds of people deciding to take the so called 'easy way out'. God forbid it happens again this time, I do desperately hope it does not for everyone's sake. These are scary times we've found ourselves in these days 
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