Most commentators have assumed that the Conservatives would always vote in favour of anything that resembled a benefits cut. But there now seems to be a possibility that the Tories are planning to support Labour rebels and vote against Labour’s Green Paper.

On 18 May, Conservative MP Helen Whately told the Standard: “Labour’s plans dodge the difficult decisions on welfare, leave more people out of work than they put in and will hit some of the nation’s poorest people.

“The sickness benefits bill is spiralling out of control and these rushed reforms will make things worse, not better.

“These plans are cruel, careless and clumsy. And it seems that even some of the people closest to Reeves agree with us, not her.”

What makes this total condemnation of the Green Paper particularly noteworthy is that Whately is the Conservative shadow secretary for work and pensions.  It seems unlikely that she would have been so outspoken in her criticism without party approval.

It is clear that the rebellion on Labour’s back benches has been growing in the two months since the Green Paper was published.

On 1 April, the Labour List website published the names of 27 MPs who said they would rebel against the government and 15 more who had expressed opposition to the Green Paper.

On 8 May, 42 Labour MPs wrote to the prime minister to say the cuts were impossible to support.

On 15 May, ITV reported that 50 Labour MPs were set to rebel, including the 42 who had signed the original letter.  100 MPs had also signed a private letter to Starmer urging the government to delay the changes and rethink its proposals. At least 6 MPs signed both letters.

Which suggests that somewhere in the region of 130 Labour MPs oppose the cuts, though there is no suggestion they would all vote against them.

The labour leadership are said to be considering a number of ways to buy off the rebels.  These include changes to the winter fuel payment means-test, changes to the two child limit or changes to the benefits cap. 

The idea will be to tell rebel MPs that the government doesn’t have the cash help these groups and also to drop its Green Paper cuts.

Whether this is a pitch that will work, remains to be seen.

But there seems to be at least a possibility that the Conservatives are now positioning themselves to take advantage of Labour’s disarray.

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  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 24 days ago
    He's AI, isn't he, Starmer? We'll have to find a way to re-code him, or short cIrcuit the motherboard so we can find a human to talk to.
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      · 24 days ago
      @rtbcpart 2 How about we get the tardis and send HIM back where he came from? There's none stranger than he is.
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      · 24 days ago
      @rtbcpart 2 I thought we got rid of Maybot?
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      · 24 days ago
      @rtbcpart 2 Ha! What a genius idea!
      Reprogramme him- the answer to all our problems! 
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 24 days ago

    Another analysis that proves the government's claims about work setting us free and getting us all out of poverty is yet another lie.  Not that we didn't all know this anyway.
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    · 24 days ago
    I too believe that they'll press ahead with the cuts, GB News/Telegraph/Sun/Daily Mail and Reform can all celebrate as their pensioners, many of whom don't need 300 pounds get their WFA once again and they can all go back to bashing the disabled as useless eaters ect. 

    I'm feeling a little bitter to be honest.
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      · 24 days ago
      @Xr22 Exactly. Not that the WFA isn't an issue, but the impact is nothing compared to losing potentially ALL of your income. If they tie PIP to work, then there's a valid risk of being forced to work, and losing everything when you can't due to being too ill. 

      As much as the WCA is dehumanising, it's a needed aspect. I would like to see a 'health' assessment which asseses both ability to work, and PIP at the same time. Added to that, the positive proposal of being able to try work without being penalised, plus support into work if wanted. 

      You can't starve disabled people into work. 


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      · 24 days ago
      @Xr22 And the hostile environment that we face if we try to work.  The government could help with this but seem intent on  encouraging hostility. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Dave Dee The WFA isn't going to be reinstated for all pensioners. Starmer said he wants more pensioners to be eligible but the there will be an income level cut off, the details of which are to be worked out.
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      · 24 days ago
      @Xr22 Me too. So many pensioners don’t need it. Ditto for Child Benefit. Paid regardless of need. It would be better to just give it to basic rate tax payers or those below that rate. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Dave Dee Me too, I'm growing very tired of constantly hearing about the one-off 300 pound WFA payment, meanwhile we sick and disabled are about to lose literally ALL of our income, totalling thousands of pounds. I wish people would realise the truly dire situation the sick and disabled are currently in!
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 25 days ago
    I note they keep harping on about winter fuel cuts no doubt only to secure the pensioner vote rather than any real empathetic reason. And yet, disabled and long term sick will be penalised by a loss of thousands per year to their only income. As Kendall and Reeves and co plod on regardless with all this.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @James That's right, unless we get a clear and binding announcement that pensioners wont be affected, we'll not be voting Labour.
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      · 24 days ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today They won't get the pensioner support because of the PIP assessments 4 point rule
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @lamchops The only reason WFA will be changed in any way is for votes If the number crunchers say it is a viable vote winner it will happen in some form If it is not worth the effort no change will happen 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today That I think is the point it is a cheaper option to  hand out £300 once a year than regular payments of pip, so they will swamp the press how caring they are giving pensioners there WFA back.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 25 days ago
    Winter fuel payment u-turn announced.  I fear this is bad for us - "we'll change our mind on this if you vote for disability cuts."  Though the bbc says it will emboldem mps wanting the disability cuts to not go ahead.

    On the other hand, it means that, even when a policy has gone through, there is still hope.
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      · 24 days ago
      @tintack Yep, they'd have to be idiots to not realise this but it seems a 1 watt bulb is significantly brighter than some of them appear!!
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      · 24 days ago
      @Mick Yes, but even if they're inclined to support the government in the hope of promotion, they still have to answer to their constituents, and the polling on the disability cuts suggests the public doesn't like this policy (about -40 was the figure I saw). Voting for unpopular policies won't help their chances of reelection, and if they get turfed out in three or four years, bang goes any chance of getting their backsides on ministerial limos.
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      · 24 days ago
      @tintack You'd think so, but this is career politics we're talking about.  Jobs for the boys and all that.
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      · 24 days ago
      @Slb
      Just the divisive politics I was fully expecting them to pull.  Play off one group against another, attempt to cut the dissent and rebellion down at the lowest cost, appease enough and silence enough to carry on with the most abhorrent plans.
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      · 24 days ago
      @Slb I would think that saying to their own MPs "we'll back down on the WFA if you let us throw sick and disabled people under the bus" is not likely to go down well.
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    · 25 days ago
    Is Whatley speaking on behalf of the same conservatives, whose own cuts/green paper was only scrapped when they lost the general election? 
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      · 21 days ago
      @MJ Wow, from the downvotes maybe tribal politics is more important than these welfare cuts being reversed. Cutting your nose off to spite your face. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @DaleMR Who cares about that now! That's in the past, we want them on our side in this vote even if they are two-faced about it. All that matters is that the vote on the cuts in parliament loses. 
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    · 25 days ago
    To scapegoat the most vulnerable is a disgrace. How will the disabled who can't work be able to survive? Government know this but as long as they save money they don't care! Disabled people are made to feel like second class citizens 



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      · 24 days ago
      @Caroline67 Do not forget malingerers and fraudsters
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      · 25 days ago
      @Liv Heard Kendalls speech today in London, currently on Youtube. Made me cringe.
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      · 25 days ago
      @Liv We are not disabled to them we are lazy scroungers
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    · 25 days ago
    Just had a phone call from Ed Davey. I maxed out the opportunity to raise all the priority points, particularly that PIP is not an out of work benefit, so removing it will 1)not help people into work and 2)will cause people to have to leave work. That removing PIP has a domino effect on UC and carer's allowance. That WFA, although vital for many, is a drop in the ocean compared to what will be lost by disabled households. Also that this is not the economic climate to daydream that employers will pick disabled people for their vacancies over non disabled people. He said he plans to raise our case in PMQs today. I hope that he does. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Elizabeth Vidler Elizabeth, exactly. It feels like banging your head against a brick wall when they keep repeating this nonsense. ITV picked up on the issue again tonight in the news- they’re talking about the growing disquiet and they spoke a good chunk about it. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @gingin gingin  I watched PMQs and Ed Davey did bring up your case, he detailed it quite clearly including how much you will be set to lose, however the useless Starmer said it is our aim to get people back to work, but you are in work, he clearly knows nothing about the benefits he plans to cut.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Gingin I think in any fight of this kind it's they who fight longest, rather than shout loudest, who win. Fair play to you for sticking at it.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Cecelia He will indeed! Starmer is cold and heartless, I detest him.

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      · 25 days ago
      @Gingin
      "We just need to keep banging on- all of us. That’s why I got to speak to him in the first place."

      That's the key point - keep up the pressure on MPs, especially Labour MPs. The rebellion on the Labour backbenches seems to be growing and that momentum needs to be maintained. In particular, the government cannot be allowed to get away with making concessions on the WFA and two child cap as a way of bribing its own MPs into throwing sick and disabled people under the bus.
  • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
    · 25 days ago
    Concessions on wfp and 2 child cap are maximum impact minimum pain for the government. The general population can get on board with loving nanas and kids and virtue signalling their outrage when those groups are threatened. It's the cute factor, whereas with the disabled, not so much.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @rookie I think we’re cute. Downright adorable in fact. 
      Know what you mean.
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    · 25 days ago
    Our case might be raised by Lib Dems in PMQs today!!
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      · 25 days ago
      @gingin can't wait to hear the same two or three sentences memorised by the government to spill out again !
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    · 25 days ago
    In The Guardian this morning, Kendall is lying again, “That is why we are grasping the nettle of welfare reform. Not for the sake of it, but to save it.” 

    Labour states another admission that previous 'reforms' have been dismal failures that have only served to further impoverish the most impoverished. 

    Instead of raising taxes on the ultrawealthy, who would not be even marginally affected, the poorest and most vulnerable get no carrot but plenty of stick. When will politicians stop punishing the vulnerable for their suffering?

    In my estimation, The Guardian isn't winning any accolades for accuracy either, by quoting the government's own impact assessment: (paraphrased) cuts to Pip and the health element of UC means 3.2m households losing an average of £1,720 a year in benefits. Well known for reporting facts and doing their own research on important matters, this is not just lazy journalism, but gaslighting at its finest. 

    Because once again, other disability wards that will be impacted by these cuts are not even mentioned. Just PIP and UC. And without other disability claimants included, the number of claimants that would be affected are much higher than 3.2m. Because claimants with old style disability benefits such as DLA -some of whom are Pensioners- would also lose a significant portion of annual income. (For pensioners who have already lost WFA, I shudder to think how they would manage. And it's likely that many won't.) Those with DLA Higher Rate Mobility will lose £4,006.60 per year, and those with Higher Rate Care Component would lose £5,740.80 per year. That's magnitudes above 'the average' of £1,720 a year. If major newspapers aren't reporting it, the public and electorate aren't aware of it. 

    I try to always comment below news articles, to clarify omissions, inaccuracies, generalisations, and gaslighting. That paper has consistently and deliberately not allowed comments on welfare cuts by not including the comments section. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @naheegan I remember in the days of the coalition's austerity drive,the Guardian was alarmingly silent on voicing opposition to the cruel policies being implemented.True,there were notable opinion pieces by Owen Jones and Frances Ryan,but these were outliers;editorially the paper was silent on the subject.One would have expected a supposed left-leaning instution to be outraged at such policies,as laudably the Telegraph had been regarding excessive mps' expenses.Plus ça change!
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Mad Si Delusional. Lives in an economic fantasyland. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @naheegan Its a funny old world this is
      as it always seems the same
      For its the rich that get richer
      and its the poor that get the blame
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @naheegan Read this article, Kendall's justifications are just mind blowing 
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      · 25 days ago
      @naheegan "Not for the sake of it, but to save it." The vacuous sound bite. 
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    · 25 days ago
    Removing the child cap and reinstating the winter fuel allowance ain’t going to be enough. The wfa is once a year but to cut your pip is losing 12 wfa a year. 
    The news channels are deliberately only mentioning the fuel allowance and not a mention of pip savagery. 
    Are these news channels acting upon instruction from the government to lay it on thick about the fuel allowance while they sneak the pip cuts through. Oh we are reinstating the fuel allowance for pensioners we ain’t as bad as people make out seems to be the modus operandi!!
    They cannot be let get away with this absolute victimisation of those of us that are unfortunate enough to be disabled. 
    The media make out it’s a life of Riley being disabled and money thrown at us for free. 
    We have already one of the harshest systems in Europe to qualify for our benefits. And out of the top 20 benefit systems in Europe the Uk comes in at a miserable 15 th place. I challenge anyone to go through the humiliation from the dwp and vilification on the media we get and try and stay strong whilst fighting a disability also. 
    The 4 point rule has to go its savergy in its finest form. I would live to be back at my work and away every morning at 5 am like I used to but alas them days are gone not by choice but by illness. 
    Everyone write to your mp and enlighten them what this is doing to people’s physical and mental health.  
    Osbournes austerity cost 330000 excess deaths from 2012-19. 
    These cuts from labour will cause significantly more excess deaths guaranteed is that really who we are as a country now that we accept the culling of the infirm as if they were Nothing but a burden. Keep the fight up people and do the right thing not just anything. Take care all b
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    · 25 days ago
    I cannot believe the Winter fuel Allowance is garnering so much media attention,it is £200 or £300 a YEAR.Around £5 a week at most.But they are pitting pensioners against disabled who are set to lose almost their entire income,thousands of pounds,just to balance the books! If this goes through I can't imagine how many stories of destitute sick ,disabled people there will be.Right before the next election.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Truth Yes,it's almost 12k in some instances,personally it's cbesa,pip and carers allowance, I fo not get any 4 pointers but being severely agoraphobic I probably should have gotten 4 in the communicating question because you see no-one but the Dr
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Claire Exactly, ur situation is far more dire and yet it's kicking up barely any fightback compared to the WFA, despite the fact we're set to lose our entire income!
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      · 25 days ago
      @Claire I agree, more needs to be said about the disabled, it's not a one off loss but like you say their entire income so how are they expected to live. It's an absolute disgrace made to feel like the biggest burden on society 😞 
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    · 25 days ago

    " Liz Kendall, will double down on Labour’s £5bn disability benefits cuts on Wednesday, claiming she is reforming the welfare state to save it from collapse."

    So, save the system from collapse by making claimants collapse instead. Top work Liz.

    "Some of those threatening to rebel over the changes are committed Keir Starmer loyalists. The 100 backbenchers said to have signed the letter are described by MPs as broadly distinct from the 42 who signed a public statement this month calling the package “impossible to support”."

    If that's true they really could be in trouble if the Tories also vote against the cuts. This would suggest there are at least 140 or so backbenchers opposed, with some reports putting the figure as high as 170. I can't imagine this doubling down is going to win round many rebels - if anything it's only likely to antagonise even more of their own MPs.

    And what a damning indictment of a supposedly Labour government, that they are only now willing to consider a climbdown on the WFA and lifting the two child cap - things that any Labour government should be doing anyway - not because they believe in doing those things, but simply in an attempt to bribe their own MPs into voting through even worse cuts for seriously ill and disabled people. Any rebel who is made that sort of offer should tell them precisely where they can stick it.
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    · 25 days ago
    Didn’t the Tories propose much bigger cuts of £12 billion with one option being to replace PIP with vouchers for mental health claimants, or something like that?

    Unfortunately, this latest Tory move seems like opposition for the sake of it. I do hate it when parties rage against something just because it’s from an opposing party. 
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      · 24 days ago
      @Jobsworth Zero Today Yes,that's a sticking point with me,I'm on so many meds it's starting to affect my liver functioning, they want to add more,latest additions were to be gabapentin and venlafaxine but I refused them,I think I need to cut down not increase them and they don't work anyway 
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      · 25 days ago
      @MATT Hasn't a clue. There are no aids that will cure any of my many conditions, only medication's. And as we know, can only take so much of that.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @WatchandWait Yes they did 
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      · 25 days ago
      @WatchandWait From what I've read here it looks as if the cuts will be much nearer to what the Tories proposed when one considers changes to UC etc.  Also, I note Timms' comments for those who will be denied PIP daily living along the lines of additional assistance in terms of aids etc. In other words, almost the same as what Sunak wanted last year. I didn't vote Labour at the last GE (I had my doubts regarding their proposed policies in relation to disability) nor at the local elections. (Lib Dem at the GE; Greens at the local election).  As mentioned elsewhere we all need to vote at the next GE.  
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      · 25 days ago
      @WatchandWait Don't care what their motivation is, I'll take opposing votes from anyone 
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    · 25 days ago
    What DWP are doing can’t work. Because it’s not going to produce the result they claim they are aiming for of employment . I think there’s many reasons why things will be watered down or quietly abandoned altogether along the way. Plus the delays to things happening legal challenges and general incompetence. Unfortunately they are creating much harm in the process.I have my own personal reasons for hating DWP/HMRC etc but I don’t think they’ll get away with it. What they will do is just move the problem to councils social services. The uncertainty is cruel though. My worries are people who won’t survive. I’m trying to think about the WCA not changing until 2028 . I think a lot of folk probably should get 4 points and should seek advice and get it. Flood them with appeals. Also continue to resist and fight ant error or mistake we can. Make their life harder. The battle against us is evil and we can’t afford to be nice. Be just as cutting and ruthless but for a genuine and just cause. 
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      · 25 days ago
      @Old Mother That’s a good idea this is the sort of thing we need to do . Once people realise that it’s counter productive. Discredit them ha! . 
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      · 25 days ago
      @Helen Galloway Agreed. Councils don’t have the capacity or funds to deal with this shift of responsibilities.  PIP is currently absorbing this shortfall.  Perhaps we should all  start looking to councils now for funding disability costs, that they currently aren’t covering. 
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Helen Galloway Yes! We need to be as disruptive as they are being. Time to put good manners aside.
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    · 25 days ago
    Rachel Reeves has said today that she is listening to MPs concerns. She is considering reinstating the wfa for pensioners and scrapping the 2 child benefit cap. It's reported she may do both in order to get MPs to vote for the reforms to disability/sickness benefits.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Cathedral city Throwing us under the bus then,signed,sealed and delivered
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Cecelia
      "if they look like losing the problem won't just go away I think."

      No, I agree that if even if they lose the vote or pull it because they think they'll lose then that would not be the end of it - we would still need to keep the pressure up with regard to whatever else they tried. Even so, the green paper getting voted down would be a massive shock for them and a clear warning that a landslide majority doesn't necessarily mean they can do whatever they want.
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      · 24 days ago
      @tintack Labour will just go back too the drawing board, if they look like losing the problem won't just go away I think.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 24 days ago
      @Cathedral city Receipt of attendance allowance might replace pip daily living, but at the cost of pip mobility, and therefore motability. Also, not everyone who is eligible for pip daily living will qualify for attendance allowance. It's not a simple swap.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Frances Pensioners can claim Attendance allowance, the rest of us can't 
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    · 25 days ago
    There's going to be a big death toll because if these PIP Cuts ,so maybe from a selfish point of view the Tories might try to exonerate themselves by voting against it ,even though they know the legislation will pass.
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Mick G
      "even though they know the legislation will pass."

      If the Tories vote against it and the Labour rebellion consists of 100+ MPs it's actually quite possible the government could lose the vote. Of course, we'll have to see how many of the 100 or more Labour MPs who are apparently opposed to the cuts actually vote against the government, but if they hold their nerve and do it there is a real chance the government could lose. Though if they think they're going to lose the vote - or if they think there's even a significant possibility they could lose - I suspect the vote would be pulled and they'd go back to the drawing board in the hope of coming up with something their own side find less objectionable.
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    · 26 days ago
    Cons desperate in need of voters for the next GE.
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    · 26 days ago
    SLB, How is it going on the X front?
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @SLB Thanks for doing the shovel work, well, more like a back hoe, but point stands. I read you to previously say you were looking for MP X handles to tag them into posts, and needed some help with sourcing. I have 2 huge lists of Twitter handles (some w/emails) and I would venture that with the site changing to X, handles would not have changed. I'm not on X, but if you want these lists, how would I get them to you? I could give urls, but posting them where (here?) is permitted?


      I do wish that more MPs (and the media!) were aware of and talking about the fact that it isn't just UC and PIP claimants who will be affected by cuts. Other claimants affected will be those in receipt of DLA, Incapacity benefits (about 3m families), and pensioners still claiming PIP
    • Thank you for your comment. Comments are moderated before being published.
      · 25 days ago
      @Yorkie Bard Lots of attention on the third volume of tags from the public (4pm must be the time to post!).  One MP has contacted me, asking me to email her.  So that's a start I guess!

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