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Clear and Concise Information on Sanctions Muddle?
- James
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #114083 by James
Clear and Concise Information on Sanctions Muddle? was created by James
Hallo Please can we have some clear and concise information on The Sanctions muddle?
It seems that a previous poster and myself are still in the dark about the exact modus operandi of ESA Sanctions?
In The ESA introductory letter the wording section re:Sanctions is ambiguous and unclear.
A previous poster asserts that The Job Centre could provide no further information and that "it was up to The Decision Maker".
They also stated that they had received "No money"at all since Sanctions were imposed.
This is at odds with the small amount of information I have gleaned from the ESA letter
which describes Sanctions as consisting of 2 different components:
basically 1)a reduction in ESA by the amount of personal component indefinetly
2)a period of weeks in which no ESA is paid at all.
Its all very confusing and one has to pick wording very carefully to be understood on this topic.
It seems sanctions is a penalty of some weeks without any money followed or preceded by "Half rations"of ESA(Personal Component of 61 pw removed if necessary for a whole year until ESA WRAG expires.
But other sources suggest "no interview attendance"no further ESA at all until further notice.
Please can you try to explain this for us all as its very stressful antiipating Sanctions
in my own case....?
Great Thanks
It seems that a previous poster and myself are still in the dark about the exact modus operandi of ESA Sanctions?
In The ESA introductory letter the wording section re:Sanctions is ambiguous and unclear.
A previous poster asserts that The Job Centre could provide no further information and that "it was up to The Decision Maker".
They also stated that they had received "No money"at all since Sanctions were imposed.
This is at odds with the small amount of information I have gleaned from the ESA letter
which describes Sanctions as consisting of 2 different components:
basically 1)a reduction in ESA by the amount of personal component indefinetly
2)a period of weeks in which no ESA is paid at all.
Its all very confusing and one has to pick wording very carefully to be understood on this topic.
It seems sanctions is a penalty of some weeks without any money followed or preceded by "Half rations"of ESA(Personal Component of 61 pw removed if necessary for a whole year until ESA WRAG expires.
But other sources suggest "no interview attendance"no further ESA at all until further notice.
Please can you try to explain this for us all as its very stressful antiipating Sanctions
in my own case....?
Great Thanks
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by . Reason: Tick.
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- Gordon
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11 years 6 months ago #114089 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Clear and Concise Information on Sanctions Muddle?
James
I dealt with the post that you referred to.
The first thing to be aware of is that the poster was not the claimant so the information being posted was second hand and as it was their daughter, likely to be coloured with a degree of emotion.
Also, although not confirmed, I believe that the daughter has been forwarded to the Work Programme, meaning that the advisor she is dealing with is not part of JC+ and therefore not necessarily fully trained in the way that the ESA system works.
The information I supplied was the same as I have previously supplied to you, without further input from the poster as to what is happening with their daughter I really cannot provide any more advice.
Gordon
I dealt with the post that you referred to.
The first thing to be aware of is that the poster was not the claimant so the information being posted was second hand and as it was their daughter, likely to be coloured with a degree of emotion.
Also, although not confirmed, I believe that the daughter has been forwarded to the Work Programme, meaning that the advisor she is dealing with is not part of JC+ and therefore not necessarily fully trained in the way that the ESA system works.
The information I supplied was the same as I have previously supplied to you, without further input from the poster as to what is happening with their daughter I really cannot provide any more advice.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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- James
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #114147 by James
Replied by James on topic Clear and Concise Information on Sanctions Muddle?
Hallo Gordon,Thanks for this reply to my query of last night.Its interesting that The Advisor is a different advisor ie.a Work Programme one to the JC+ one.
Regarding the previous awnsers to this topic I do remember them but am Im afraid suffering a "mental block"in understanding the phrasing used in the ESA Sanction letter & its referring to it by you in the previous response.
The sticking point is that I observe that most of the Posters on here are yet to be at Sanctions Stage as so many topics are about transfers from IB,ATOS upcoming Medicals etc.
So I feel very much like Im operating in the unknown as theres not too much other than the few lines "The Official Version"quoted on here.
The challenge is I cant make head nor tail of this Official Version.
It may be deliberately obtuse in order to give the DWP leeway to interpret it as they see fit.
What would be nice would be if an explanation can be posted along the following framework?
1)A Claimant refuses to attend their initial JC+ interview.
2)They get Sanctioned.
3)After this for me its guesswork.But guessing......Claimant receives a letter a few weeks later...
from the Decision maker.....(never seen one of these)....telling them that their ESA benefit
is being/to be affected in some way....again its guesswork.
until such time that they attend the first interview.
4)Whats not clear is how long weekly amounts of their usual ESA Benefit
are witheld or reduced for for in relation to the continued non attendance.
All I am getting is a gobblydook of 1 week,2 weeks,4 weeks,personal Component reduced for all year,just 3 weeks,beforehand,afterwards ,further letters,further inviitations ,more weeks,etc etc..Cany uderstand it all.
And what happens when they refuse to attend anything for the rest of the year?
If its felt that no further awnser can be provided then fine I will just have to wait and see
what happens and will let you know but I feel this issue is going to be increasingly common
as Claimants are put in this position after this years cuts and that a expansive awnser and more eloborate details would be very useful.
Regarding the previous awnsers to this topic I do remember them but am Im afraid suffering a "mental block"in understanding the phrasing used in the ESA Sanction letter & its referring to it by you in the previous response.
The sticking point is that I observe that most of the Posters on here are yet to be at Sanctions Stage as so many topics are about transfers from IB,ATOS upcoming Medicals etc.
So I feel very much like Im operating in the unknown as theres not too much other than the few lines "The Official Version"quoted on here.
The challenge is I cant make head nor tail of this Official Version.
It may be deliberately obtuse in order to give the DWP leeway to interpret it as they see fit.
What would be nice would be if an explanation can be posted along the following framework?
1)A Claimant refuses to attend their initial JC+ interview.
2)They get Sanctioned.
3)After this for me its guesswork.But guessing......Claimant receives a letter a few weeks later...
from the Decision maker.....(never seen one of these)....telling them that their ESA benefit
is being/to be affected in some way....again its guesswork.
until such time that they attend the first interview.
4)Whats not clear is how long weekly amounts of their usual ESA Benefit
are witheld or reduced for for in relation to the continued non attendance.
All I am getting is a gobblydook of 1 week,2 weeks,4 weeks,personal Component reduced for all year,just 3 weeks,beforehand,afterwards ,further letters,further inviitations ,more weeks,etc etc..Cany uderstand it all.
And what happens when they refuse to attend anything for the rest of the year?
If its felt that no further awnser can be provided then fine I will just have to wait and see
what happens and will let you know but I feel this issue is going to be increasingly common
as Claimants are put in this position after this years cuts and that a expansive awnser and more eloborate details would be very useful.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Gordon.
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11 years 6 months ago #114153 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic Clear and Concise Information on Sanctions Muddle?
James
OK, let's start over
Advisors cannot sanction claimants, they can only make a recommendation that one is applied.
Depending on the "offence", a Decision Maker should contact the claimant as to their reasons for the offence, if accepted then no sanction will be applied, if they are not then the claimant will be sanctioned, a sanction Decision must be made in writing to the claimant.
A sanction will apply from the date of the Decision to sanction until the claimant remedies the cause of the sanction, for example, if the offence is a failure to attend an appointment then the sanction will apply until the appointment is attended.
There is a further penalty attached to the sanction, for the first offence it is one additional week of sanction, see the following for more details
Changes to ESA Sanctions
ESA payments have two components, a personal allowance and a payment related to the group that the claimant is in, sanctions apply to the personal component, usually £71.70.
Gordon
OK, let's start over

Advisors cannot sanction claimants, they can only make a recommendation that one is applied.
Depending on the "offence", a Decision Maker should contact the claimant as to their reasons for the offence, if accepted then no sanction will be applied, if they are not then the claimant will be sanctioned, a sanction Decision must be made in writing to the claimant.
A sanction will apply from the date of the Decision to sanction until the claimant remedies the cause of the sanction, for example, if the offence is a failure to attend an appointment then the sanction will apply until the appointment is attended.
There is a further penalty attached to the sanction, for the first offence it is one additional week of sanction, see the following for more details
Changes to ESA Sanctions
ESA payments have two components, a personal allowance and a payment related to the group that the claimant is in, sanctions apply to the personal component, usually £71.70.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
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