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DMs reaching decisions

  • del
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #113589 by del
DMs reaching decisions was created by del
Are Decision Makers and Reconsideration Decision Makers including those submitting to appeal tribunal allowed to make decisions without having in their possession the ESA50, additional medical evidence, ESA113 or FRR2? I am aware Atos were in receipt of all evidence.

Excluding above paperwork which appears to have been misplaced by DWP, are Decision Makers allowed to withhold from the Tribunal additional evidence relevant to my case? I can supply Tribunal with the copies.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Gordon.

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11 years 6 months ago #113596 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic DMs reaching decisions

del wrote: Are Decision Makers and Reconsideration Decision Makers including those submitting to appeal tribunal allowed to make decisions without having in their possession the ESA50, additional medical evidence, ESA113 or FRR2? I am aware Atos were in receipt of all evidence.

Excluding above paperwork which appears to have been misplaced by DWP, are Decision Makers allowed to withhold from the Tribunal additional evidence relevant to my case? I can supply Tribunal with the copies.


Every time this question has been asked it appears to have been a can or worms so please bear with me and don't shoot the messenger :)

To answer your first question, the DM must show that there was sufficient evidence for them to make a Decision, there is no legal definition of what constitutes sufficient evidence nor is there a list of documents that must be available i.e. a Decision can be made without an ESA50.

The DWP are required to withhold anything that comes under the heading of "harmful information" from the appeal pack, this would not include any information that the claimant had supplied as they would obviously have knowledge of this, but could include information supplied by a GP or other Health Care Professional if it was labelled as harmful.

Harmful information includes a diagnosis that that the claimant is not currently aware, for example that they have a life threatening illness, or information that would be detrimental to the claimants health if they were aware of it, this is most usually related to mental health issues. This information can be made available to the claimant, but only on the advice of an appropriate Health Professional.

All of that said, by far and away the most likely reason that information is missing from the appeal pack is that the DWP have lost or at the very least, misplaced it.

You can obviously provide a copy of any documents that you supplied, your GP should have a copy of ant ESA113 or GPFR that they have completed as it should have been recorded in your medical notes. As you have no certain knowledge that the documents were available to the DM when they made their Decision, unless there is an LT54 which should list the documents used, it is worth raising this doubt with the Tribunal panel, as it will help to call into question the Decision that was made.

Gordon

Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems

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  • del
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11 years 6 months ago #113608 by del
Replied by del on topic DMs reaching decisions

Gordon wrote:

del wrote: Are Decision Makers and Reconsideration Decision Makers including those submitting to appeal tribunal allowed to make decisions without having in their possession the ESA50, additional medical evidence, ESA113 or FRR2? I am aware Atos were in receipt of all evidence.

Excluding above paperwork which appears to have been misplaced by DWP, are Decision Makers allowed to withhold from the Tribunal additional evidence relevant to my case? I can supply Tribunal with the copies.


Every time this question has been asked it appears to have been a can or worms so please bear with me and don't shoot the messenger :)

To answer your first question, the DM must show that there was sufficient evidence for them to make a Decision, there is no legal definition of what constitutes sufficient evidence nor is there a list of documents that must be available i.e. a Decision can be made without an ESA50.

The DWP are required to withhold anything that comes under the heading of "harmful information" from the appeal pack, this would not include any information that the claimant had supplied as they would obviously have knowledge of this, but could include information supplied by a GP or other Health Care Professional if it was labelled as harmful.

Harmful information includes a diagnosis that that the claimant is not currently aware, for example that they have a life threatening illness, or information that would be detrimental to the claimants health if they were aware of it, this is most usually related to mental health issues. This information can be made available to the claimant, but only on the advice of an appropriate Health Professional.

All of that said, by far and away the most likely reason that information is missing from the appeal pack is that the DWP have lost or at the very least, misplaced it.

You can obviously provide a copy of any documents that you supplied, your GP should have a copy of ant ESA113 or GPFR that they have completed as it should have been recorded in your medical notes. As you have no certain knowledge that the documents were available to the DM when they made their Decision, unless there is an LT54 which should list the documents used, it is worth raising this doubt with the Tribunal panel, as it will help to call into question the Decision that was made.

Gordon


Thanks Gordon and don't worry I definitely won't shoot the messenger :laugh:

B) I will keep my comment polite ,all I will say is I am shocked and appauled how decisions can be made without all evidence being used especially the amount of work claimants put into gathering it in the first instance.

I will definitely be raising the doubt with the Tribunal, goodness knows what will happen at appeal stage as the entire thing is a shambles.

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  • del
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #113687 by del
Replied by del on topic DMs reaching decisions
I am confused, how can DM in appeal submission state they selected descriptors which related to me when they cannot provide any paperwork via my SAR or in appeal papers showing which descriptors they used?
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Gordon.

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11 years 6 months ago #113691 by Gordon
Replied by Gordon on topic DMs reaching decisions

del wrote: I am confused, how can DM in appeal submission state they selected descriptors which related to me when they cannot provide any paperwork via my SAR or in appeal papers showing which descriptors they used?


OK, the situation is clearly confused because you do not know what if any documents were used in the making of the Decision, but things basically fall into two camps;

- Your ESA50, evidence etc. were available to the DM when they made the Decision and were lost after this was done, or

- A Decision was made without the use of the documents.

There is an additional issue if the DM does not, or cannot identify the Descriptors that were met in the making of the Decision as you can argue that it is not valid.

My advice to you is to play dumb with the Tribunal panel, and ask these questions of them, if they do not address them in their proceedings then they are almost certainly opening themselves up to having any Decision challenged by you at the Upper Tribunal.

Gordon

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  • del
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #113703 by del
Replied by del on topic DMs reaching decisions

Gordon wrote:

del wrote: I am confused, how can DM in appeal submission state they selected descriptors which related to me when they cannot provide any paperwork via my SAR or in appeal papers showing which descriptors they used?


OK, the situation is clearly confused because you do not know what if any documents were used in the making of the Decision, but things basically fall into two camps;

- Your ESA50, evidence etc. were available to the DM when they made the Decision and were lost after this was done, or

- A Decision was made without the use of the documents.

There is an additional issue if the DM does not, or cannot identify the Descriptors that were met in the making of the Decision as you can argue that it is not valid.

My advice to you is to play dumb with the Tribunal panel, and ask these questions of them, if they do not address them in their proceedings then they are almost certainly opening themselves up to having any Decision challenged by you at the Upper Tribunal.

Gordon


Thanks Gordon. I am not underestimating when I say this entire case is a total shambles from beginning to end. I am suspicious that all docs vanished while being transferred from Atos to DWP and I will be seeking answers. I haven't a clue how to deal with it, my entire case file appears to be missing apart from one single document which their entire case revolves around and which they have conveniently omitted the most relevant sections of that document in their submission. Luckily very early on and for another reason I requested SARs and obtained GP reports and have kept copies of absolutely everything.

Based on the one document they can only refer to should I still go ahead and work on that explaining the most relevant parts they have conveniently missed out, also, should I still submit reasons to justify what descriptors I believe I meet for SG prior to going to tribunal?

Do you mean that I should ask the Tribunal panel on the day which descriptors I have met and not mention them in any evidence I submit prior to attending appeal? :) that's a bit like stating the obvious but just want to be sure.

I apologise for all the posts and questions about this but I feel as if I am doing the job of DWP and my own :evil: My health needs to significantly deteriorate according to DWP, that's a joke since they don't know the half of it :evil: won't be too long before that happens with this stress.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Gordon.

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