Help required with my appeal to Tribunal.

Meleri

Was the Descriptor you mention a WRAG or Support Group one? I understand it is much more difficult to get into the Support Group and I was very surprised when you said you were appealing from "Fit to Work". Can I ask you, did you have any points in your assessment or were you appealing from a zero points position? I was awarded 6 points after the reconsideration - I would love to get into the Support Group then I would have money right up to transferring to my state pension.

I wish I could chat to you privately (on line) but do not think this is possible on this forum - I think you could probably help me as you have been where I am. Your decision has given me a bit more hope and in that respect I need to make my appeal very clear but the difficulty is knowing exactly what to say.

Am sure you will sleep well tonight

Judith

Hi Judith,

I'm afraid that this site does not have the facility for members to contact each other privately.

Referring to one of your comments - I can confirm that we have had members go from zero points to Support Group on appeal.

Hi Judith,

The Descriptor was 9a which gets you into the Support Group. The Dr at the medical gave me 0 points and the Decision Maker gave me 6 Points at the reconsideration. I asked the Tribunal in my 2nd appeal letter if I could discuss this matter with them at the hearing, as I thought I should have received 15 points and as my problem was weekly (sometimes daily)could they consider putting me in the Support Group. Thank goodness I joined B&W otherwise I probably wouldn't have spotted that.
I have quite a few health problems but they only wanted to discuss Descriptor 9. To be honest they are extremely busy and the Judge made it quite clear to my representative that is what they wanted to discuss first and as I have said before they stopped the appeal after 10 minutes and agreed to put me in the Support Group.
I wish I could help you further as I know the agony you are going through, the only comfort I can give you is to tell you due to the spiralling costs of so many appeals, in 2014 it looks like the system is going to change in favour of people like us, as the present system is failing miserably.
I thought too that I would sleep well after many sleepless nights, but the adrenalin was still pumping away.
Good Luck for the future,
Meleri

Hi Meleri

Descriptor 9a is one that I have highlighted but I thought that 15 points put you into WRAG not Support Group ?? I also have 2a, 10a or b, 14a or b and did have 15c highlighted but on revision the DM gave me 6 points for 15c. When I submitted my appeal form I went thoroughly through each descriptor saying why I felt I should have received points for them so am at bit of a loss to know what to do for my appeal.

I guess that I need to reiterate it all again, as strong as I can as they appear to have not read what I have said or just not believed me. I did state it all in my original ESA50 so when will they believe me

Thank you for your comments and if you have any more comments that could possibly help me I would be grateful to receive them.

When your adrenalin calms down you should feel better and can now relax.

Judith x

Judith wrote: Hi Meleri

Descriptor 9a is one that I have highlighted but I thought that 15 points put you into WRAG not Support Group ?? I also have 2a, 10a or b, 14a or b and did have 15c highlighted but on revision the DM gave me 6 points for 15c. When I submitted my appeal form I went thoroughly through each descriptor saying why I felt I should have received points for them so am at bit of a loss to know what to do for my appeal.

I guess that I need to reiterate it all again, as strong as I can as they appear to have not read what I have said or just not believed me. I did state it all in my original ESA50 so when will they believe me

Thank you for your comments and if you have any more comments that could possibly help me I would be grateful to receive them.

When your adrenalin calms down you should feel better and can now relax.

Judith x

Hi J,

You are correct.

Although some of the WRAG Descriptors that score the maximum 15 points also correspond to some of The SG Descriptors, WRAG Descriptor 9 (a) is not one of them :

"9. Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

9(a) At least once a month experiences: 15 Points"

From :

WRAG (LCW)Schedule 2 Descriptors

The corresponding SG Descriptor requires it to be :

8. Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally or could reasonably be worn or used.

"8 At least once a week experiences" :

(a) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or

(b) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device sufficient to require the individual to clean themselves and change clothing.

From :

SG (LCWRA)Schedule 3 Descriptors

bro58

Hi Judith,

Please accept my apologies for giving you the wrong information, as you and bro58 have rightly pointed out and corrected me. Seems like the whole experience has addled my brain. The computer system was down at the Tribunal, so they are sending on my paperwork. I did state in my appeal letter I thought I should have had the 15 points and not 6 and would they possibly consider me for the Support Group. My representative did warn me not to hold back when describing incidents as bowels being bowels, it could be really embarrassing. The Doctor was very thorough in his questioning.
In my second appeal letter I sent to the Tribunal I pointed out the D M had ignored my 1st appeal letter and my GP support letter. He had written under the heading Details of Decision (which is at the end of the papers) that I had not provided any additional evidence to enable him to change his decision and this was dated. On page 2 of the appeal papers there is a schedule of evidence with dates and brief description of documents. Both my letters were received 18 days before the D M made his final decision. When I went in to the appeal there was a copy of my GP's and 2 appeal letters given to everyone.So the Panel did take notice of what I had said in my 2nd appeal letter. I had also pointed out in the same letter that the M P at the medical had not listed my bowel problems under Medical Conditions Identified,also under heading Continence (other than Enuresis) she had put none of the above apply. Yet under Descriptions of Functional Ability she mentions the bowel & bladder problems and I was astonished at the inconsistencies.
The panel made it clear that they were only interested in how my health was at the time of the medical and current health issues weren't relevant. I would suggest you read carefully through your appeal papers to see if the decision was made fairly and the medical was accurately documented and if not bring that to the Tribunals attention. They do like you to put what page you are referring to as it saves them time wading through everything. Another thing that helps is if you could take someone with you to the hearing who is witness to your everyday problems, as they are allowed to speak when the Judge gives his permission. I hope this helps you in some small way.
Meleri.