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ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
- Chlorinated
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10 years 1 month ago #131593 by Chlorinated
ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food was created by Chlorinated
In the ESA guide there is a PIP alert saying if you say you can 'learn tasks' it may affect your an award for 'Preparing food' in PIP. However it seems to me preparing food(in PIP) is to do with learning and execution, but many people will not have a problem with learning i.e. it's just the execution part.
If I have CFS and depression, I should be able to still learn simple things from bed, however execution them is a different matter. If I now say I can learn tasks, could that still mean I it would affect my PIP claim that I cannot prepare and cook food? I don't see why it should however it is an alert in your ESA guide.
Thanks
If I have CFS and depression, I should be able to still learn simple things from bed, however execution them is a different matter. If I now say I can learn tasks, could that still mean I it would affect my PIP claim that I cannot prepare and cook food? I don't see why it should however it is an alert in your ESA guide.
Thanks
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- Gordon
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10 years 1 month ago #131599 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
Amonia
The issue is the other way around, the alert is in regard to ESA.
If you say that you are able to prepare a simple meal on the PIP form, then you are saying that you are able to learn a task, this would be an issue in regard to ESA if you had scored points for being unable to learn to a task.
To be clear, this is an issue of learning rather than execution.
Gordon
The issue is the other way around, the alert is in regard to ESA.
If you say that you are able to prepare a simple meal on the PIP form, then you are saying that you are able to learn a task, this would be an issue in regard to ESA if you had scored points for being unable to learn to a task.
To be clear, this is an issue of learning rather than execution.
Gordon
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- Chlorinated
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10 years 1 month ago - 10 years 1 month ago #131651 by Chlorinated
Replied by Chlorinated on topic ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
Just some other questions about forms:
1. The space to write answer in both pip and especially ESA is very small. Is it acceptable to just write all answer(with descriptor name) in a word document and refer to that document in the answer box?
2. I have written answers for all pip answers and EA answers in word documents and given a lot of detail. Both document are about 6 pages each. I tried to emulate your guide which were short sentences however I found myself writing more and more detail and had many things to say. Do you think I have maybe overdone it with 6(also includes other information) pages and might this be counter productive in anyway? or does 6 pages sound ok?
3. There is no pip descriptor for problems with going to sleep. If somebody has major problems getting to sleep and needs support, could detailing or other such issues score points?
4. If somebody is getting by(even though they need help but do not get it) is this likely to discredit their applications in anyway?
thanks
1. The space to write answer in both pip and especially ESA is very small. Is it acceptable to just write all answer(with descriptor name) in a word document and refer to that document in the answer box?
2. I have written answers for all pip answers and EA answers in word documents and given a lot of detail. Both document are about 6 pages each. I tried to emulate your guide which were short sentences however I found myself writing more and more detail and had many things to say. Do you think I have maybe overdone it with 6(also includes other information) pages and might this be counter productive in anyway? or does 6 pages sound ok?
3. There is no pip descriptor for problems with going to sleep. If somebody has major problems getting to sleep and needs support, could detailing or other such issues score points?
4. If somebody is getting by(even though they need help but do not get it) is this likely to discredit their applications in anyway?
thanks
Last edit: 10 years 1 month ago by . Reason: tick
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- Gordon
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10 years 1 month ago #131658 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
Amonia
1. It is perfectly alright to use additional pages, just make sure each page has your full name and your National Insurance Number, that each is numbered , we recommend that use something like "page X of Y" and that they are firmly attached to the form, staples or a treasury tag.
2. There is no right or wrong number of pages to add, as a general rule less is better, but not if it means that you have not fully described your problems, we know of members who have included less and others who attached much, much more.
3. You can only score points for the Descriptors listed, however, if your lack of sleep causes issues with your ability to perform any of the Descriptors reliably then you should mention this.
4. You do not need to be receiving help or care in order to be classed as needing it, but if you do not then you need to explain how you manage to do things without assistance, it may be that you do not do them to a reasonable standard or they take longer than a well person would or that you do them even though it is not safe for you to do so.
Gordon
1. It is perfectly alright to use additional pages, just make sure each page has your full name and your National Insurance Number, that each is numbered , we recommend that use something like "page X of Y" and that they are firmly attached to the form, staples or a treasury tag.
2. There is no right or wrong number of pages to add, as a general rule less is better, but not if it means that you have not fully described your problems, we know of members who have included less and others who attached much, much more.
3. You can only score points for the Descriptors listed, however, if your lack of sleep causes issues with your ability to perform any of the Descriptors reliably then you should mention this.
4. You do not need to be receiving help or care in order to be classed as needing it, but if you do not then you need to explain how you manage to do things without assistance, it may be that you do not do them to a reasonable standard or they take longer than a well person would or that you do them even though it is not safe for you to do so.
Gordon
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- caravanj
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10 years 1 month ago #131662 by caravanj
This raises an interesting point because I have a friend who receives high rate DLA for both mobility & care + ESA & has asked me about PIP.
They live alone & undertake all their own domestic chores such as cleaning, cooking, managing their own medication, dressing & bathing unaided, getting in fuel for the fire, walking a fairly large dog, shopping, driving long distances etc.
They wanted to know how my wife's PIP claim & assessment went but I just can't see how my friend will be able to score any points with the PIP descriptors.
Replied by caravanj on topic ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
Gordon wrote: Amonia
4. You do not need to be receiving help or care in order to be classed as needing it, but if you do not then you need to explain how you manage to do things without assistance, it may be that you do not do them to a reasonable standard or they take longer than a well person would or that you do them even though it is not safe for you to do so.
Gordon
This raises an interesting point because I have a friend who receives high rate DLA for both mobility & care + ESA & has asked me about PIP.
They live alone & undertake all their own domestic chores such as cleaning, cooking, managing their own medication, dressing & bathing unaided, getting in fuel for the fire, walking a fairly large dog, shopping, driving long distances etc.
They wanted to know how my wife's PIP claim & assessment went but I just can't see how my friend will be able to score any points with the PIP descriptors.
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- Gordon
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10 years 1 month ago #131667 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic ESA Learning tasks vs PIP preparing food
caravanj
I would make two points to your friend.
First they have an award of DLA which one supposes was made in similar circumstances, so an award in this situation is most certainly possible.
Secondly, one of the advantages of the advantages for PIP (there are some, honest) is that the descriptors and what claimants need to do to meet them are far more clearly defined for PIP than they ever were for DLA.
The key phrase is reliably, I alluded to this in my reply to Amonia. Reliably means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
So using some examples, perhaps your friend can get dressed on their own but it takes them so long that they are easily in excess of twice the time that an abled body person would take, then they should not be regard as being able to dress themselves.
Maybe they can wash themselves but only hands and face, if that is all they can do then they should not be considered as being able to do so to an acceptable standard.
Maybe they can cook a meal in a microwave but due to dexterity problems regularly burn themselves getting the hot food out of the machine, then there would be issues of them being able to do this safely.
I'm struggling for a good example for repeatedly but I hope you get the idea.
Gordon
I would make two points to your friend.
First they have an award of DLA which one supposes was made in similar circumstances, so an award in this situation is most certainly possible.
Secondly, one of the advantages of the advantages for PIP (there are some, honest) is that the descriptors and what claimants need to do to meet them are far more clearly defined for PIP than they ever were for DLA.
The key phrase is reliably, I alluded to this in my reply to Amonia. Reliably means
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and appropriate standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
So using some examples, perhaps your friend can get dressed on their own but it takes them so long that they are easily in excess of twice the time that an abled body person would take, then they should not be regard as being able to dress themselves.
Maybe they can wash themselves but only hands and face, if that is all they can do then they should not be considered as being able to do so to an acceptable standard.
Maybe they can cook a meal in a microwave but due to dexterity problems regularly burn themselves getting the hot food out of the machine, then there would be issues of them being able to do this safely.
I'm struggling for a good example for repeatedly but I hope you get the idea.
Gordon
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