- Posts: 197
× Members
PIP APPEAL - Mobility Descriptor
- Augustus
- Topic Author
- Offline
Less More
10 years 6 months ago #126467 by Augustus
PIP APPEAL - Mobility Descriptor was created by Augustus
Good afternoon
I am considering an appeal against a lower rate PIP award for mobility.
The issue is descriptor 11d - unfamiliar journeys.
DWP says I cannot use public transport for physical reasons but I can for purposes of cognition etc. and so 11d does not apply.
Do you think the the physical/ sensory distinction above is implied in the DWP Assessment Guide (p116-117) where it says " A person should only be considered able to follow an unfamiliar journey if they are able to use public transport."
In other words, does that statement not carry its ordinary meaning, but is restricted to sensory reasons only?
Also, for purposes of PIP, is it reasonable to argue that unremitting pain (cluster headaches), where the head is the seat of human judgement and understanding, would likely impact on one's ability to understand and follow such journeys, so that a companion would be guiding and deciding how to get to the destination and when to travel etc? Also, side-effects of medication in terms of poor concentration and giddiness?
This is my routine to unknown venues, but explanations on my application form as to my pain and medication side-effects seem to carry no weight for this descriptor.
Is there an mileage to an appeal along these lines, or am I likely wasting my time?
In a nutshell, is this descriptor only relevant for diagnosed sensory or cognitive impairment? If so, is everything above irrelevant for 11d to apply?
Grateful for any feedback.
Thanks
A
I am considering an appeal against a lower rate PIP award for mobility.
The issue is descriptor 11d - unfamiliar journeys.
DWP says I cannot use public transport for physical reasons but I can for purposes of cognition etc. and so 11d does not apply.
Do you think the the physical/ sensory distinction above is implied in the DWP Assessment Guide (p116-117) where it says " A person should only be considered able to follow an unfamiliar journey if they are able to use public transport."
In other words, does that statement not carry its ordinary meaning, but is restricted to sensory reasons only?
Also, for purposes of PIP, is it reasonable to argue that unremitting pain (cluster headaches), where the head is the seat of human judgement and understanding, would likely impact on one's ability to understand and follow such journeys, so that a companion would be guiding and deciding how to get to the destination and when to travel etc? Also, side-effects of medication in terms of poor concentration and giddiness?
This is my routine to unknown venues, but explanations on my application form as to my pain and medication side-effects seem to carry no weight for this descriptor.
Is there an mileage to an appeal along these lines, or am I likely wasting my time?
In a nutshell, is this descriptor only relevant for diagnosed sensory or cognitive impairment? If so, is everything above irrelevant for 11d to apply?
Grateful for any feedback.
Thanks
A
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Gordon
- Offline
Less More
- Posts: 51284
10 years 6 months ago #126475 by Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by Gordon on topic PIP APPEAL - Mobility Descriptor
Augustus
We cannot give a definitive answer at this time, the only information available at this time if the Descriptors defined in legislation and the guidance issued by the DWP, there is no independent view resulting from Tribunal Case Law and this likely to be the case for many months to come.
To try and give you an idea of how this Descriptor is viewed I think you need to revisit the PIP Assessment guide in the Members area, it was last updated on 31 October 2014, in particular the following for Descriptor 11(d)
‘Follow’ does not include the physical act of moving, it is the visual, cognitive and intellectual ability to reliably navigate a route that should be considered.
This would seem to specifically exclude physical problems that a claimant might have using public transport such as getting on and off a bus.
It is well understood, or at least it should be, that chronic pain can cause cognitive problems and therefore you can certainly argue that "unremitting pain" that you have from your headaches would affect your ability to follow a route, however, I think you would also need to show that you experience these headaches when you have gone out, I can see a DM asking the questions as to why someone would go out in the first place if they are experiencing these levels of pain.
Gordon
We cannot give a definitive answer at this time, the only information available at this time if the Descriptors defined in legislation and the guidance issued by the DWP, there is no independent view resulting from Tribunal Case Law and this likely to be the case for many months to come.
To try and give you an idea of how this Descriptor is viewed I think you need to revisit the PIP Assessment guide in the Members area, it was last updated on 31 October 2014, in particular the following for Descriptor 11(d)
‘Follow’ does not include the physical act of moving, it is the visual, cognitive and intellectual ability to reliably navigate a route that should be considered.
This would seem to specifically exclude physical problems that a claimant might have using public transport such as getting on and off a bus.
It is well understood, or at least it should be, that chronic pain can cause cognitive problems and therefore you can certainly argue that "unremitting pain" that you have from your headaches would affect your ability to follow a route, however, I think you would also need to show that you experience these headaches when you have gone out, I can see a DM asking the questions as to why someone would go out in the first place if they are experiencing these levels of pain.
Gordon
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: Gordon, Gary, BIS, Catherine, Wendy, Kelly, greekqueen, peter, Katherine, Super User, Chris, David