What's the defintion of work-related activity?

One reason for getting in to the Support Group is that you are "unfit for Work-related Activity" As far as I can see, WRA can be anything from being sent to a Work Programme provider where they decide that you should do a long stint in a "work placement" (or is "work experience" - I get the 2 mixed up). Another interpretation of WRA can be having a 20-minute phone call at home from a JC+ advisor once every 3 months.

So, if WRA means the phone call option, then surely very few doctors can say that you couldn't lie in bed and talk to an advisor once every 3 months. OTOH, there are many of us for whom more than 2 days in the workplace is likely to be a severely debilitating experience.

What will I be asking my GP to testify to?

carruthers wrote: One reason for getting in to the Support Group is that you are "unfit for Work-related Activity" As far as I can see, WRA can be anything from being sent to a Work Programme provider where they decide that you should do a long stint in a "work placement" (or is "work experience" - I get the 2 mixed up). Another interpretation of WRA can be having a 20-minute phone call at home from a JC+ advisor once every 3 months.

So, if WRA means the phone call option, then surely very few doctors can say that you couldn't lie in bed and talk to an advisor once every 3 months. OTOH, there are many of us for whom more than 2 days in the workplace is likely to be a severely debilitating experience.

What will I be asking my GP to testify to?

Hi c,

What does WRA involve ? is a question that is often asked.

Besides the obvious, it may vary locally, dependent on what Works Programme Providers are in the mix, what courses are available etc, etc.

There is not a definitive answer to what WRA involves.

If you were only capable of carrying out WFI's over the phone once every 3 months, and the JCP Adviser had agreed to do this, one would envisage that they had conceded that you were not able to attend WFI's or get involved in WRA.

Therefore, without knowing what WRA actually encompassed with respect to your local area, there is not a definitive answer.

Whatever the JCP Adviser or The WPP's require you to do, they must take into account your medical conditions and resulting limitations, and make any reasonable adjustments that may be necessary.

Otherwise, they may be held in contravention of EA 2010 sections 20-22.

They cannot force you to actively seek or take up employment.

bro58

Hi c,

A related rightsnet thread

bro58

I'm afraid I did not make myself clear. I do realise that the position with "work-related activity" is clear as mud once you are in the WRAG and the hands of JCP or the Work Programme Provider. My question, however, was not really about "what can you be expected to do as WRA?"

Let me put it another way. AIUI, in order to get into the Support Group, you have to be judged to have “limited capacity for work-related activity” (LCWRA). The best way to establish this on your E50 is to show that you meet one of the descriptors laid out as tests for your capacity for WRA e.g. that you can’t “mobilise” for 30m or can’t learn simple tasks.

However, there is also the provision that:

A claimant who does not have LCWRA is treated as having LCWRA if
1. the claimant suffers from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and
2. by reasons of such disease or disablement, there would be a substantial risk (see DMG 42194) to the mental or physical health of any person if that claimant were found not to have LCWRA.

(DMG 42365)

In some cases (especially mental illness) it is easy to see how even the slightest involvement with WRA might worsen someone’s condition. In other cases, however, it is much more difficult.

Suppose you have a “specific physical disease” (e.g. Parkinson’s), how do you establish that there is a risk of “work-related activity” causing “significant” harm? Many conditions are made worse by stress, but the degree of harm (i.e. whether it is “significant”) will depend on the nature of the WRA. That WRA is specified by the JCP or WPP “advisor” who may or may not agree about what it is “reasonable” to ask you to do.

So, does the DM/Atos HCP – when looking at the E50 – decide on whether WRA is “substantial risk” to your health consider if you would be harmed by 6 WFIs? Or do they ask themselves if you could undertake (say) a 6-week training course or a 2-week “work placement”? I have looked at the DM Guide and there appears to be no guidance on this specific issue.

Suppose you ask your doctor to support you on this issue. The doctor knows you can manage 20-30 minute discussions of your health (who better?), but may completely agree that anything more demanding would run the risk of serious damage to your health. Is any guidance to them equally vague?

Is there any record of this issue coming up in tribunals?

I think c is going too deep with this.

What c suggests is paramount to expecting a G.P. who recommends that a patient is unfit for work, has limited capability for work, to then go on and provide an extensive list of all the different types of work that the patient had limited capability for.

The same applies to the DM or ATOS when making an LCW award/recommendation, would they have to apply an extensive list of work that the claimant had limited capability for?

As with LCW above, I think that we must assume that LCWRA may include normally accepted requirements, such as interviews, courses, work placements etc, which must be deemed as reasonable.

The WFI's are generally used to assess what if any further WRA, the claimant can take part in.

It should be enough for a letter of support to state that the claimant is unfit to take part in WRA, therefore has LCWRA, going into detail of how and why, and covering any Substantial Risk that may be involved if ESA Reg 35 was to be used.

bro58