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Enhanced mobility PIP
- Kalem
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2 months 16 hours ago #293765 by Kalem
Enhanced mobility PIP was created by Kalem
Hello, i’ve recently been fighting pip for quite some time now and finally got a call back yesterday refusing my enhanced mobility. I already claim standard for both but have recently seeked legal advice from NBAC who have helped me build a profile to aid me in my appeal. I’m a young adult (24) who has suffered from SEVERE depression and anxiety from since i can remember. I have severe agoraphobia from being randomly attacked multiple times and recently found out i have a very rare condition which included multiple hernias located in my legs. This condition is so rare no local GP knew what it was or how to treat it. I was referred to Physio which actually made it worse. A specialist had to come all the way from london to give me answers i had been looking for. These hernias press on my nerves when i stand causing excruciating burning pain in my legs / shins restricting my ability to walk, I’ve had them since i was born and they’re progessively getting worse. They say it was a condition men would get in the war / olympic athletes which is strange as i’ve never been that sporty in my youth. Having to deal with this aswell as my mental health has been a real challenge and i feel i’ve been let down by the system massively. I’ve sent off all evidence saying how i can only limit myself to 20 minutes of walking a day in spaces not all at once with frequent breaks without suffering severe pain. PIP rang me yesterday to say they will offer me enhanced daily living but not for mobility. They said it will go to tribunal.. I’m unsure if this is a good outcome or not and i believe i have been unfairly treated, any advice in black and white i can use to fight my case will be massively appreciated. I’ve had supporting statements from family / friends and plenty of medical evidence to suggest i have pain when standing / walking and there is no chance i can walk more than 200m at any given time! it would take me a very long time to do this distance because of the frequent breaks i need to take, i feel my youth has been stripped from me because of these dehabilitating conditions i have and i really do not want to result in using an aid such as a chair or stick because it is humiliating for someone of my age so i try my best to push through the pain but i shouldnt have too, i believe i have suffered enough, looking forward to your replies. Thankyou.
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- BIS
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1 month 4 weeks ago - 1 month 4 weeks ago #293796 by BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Replied by BIS on topic Enhanced mobility PIP
Hi Kalem
I'm sorry that you're in so much pain, but glad to hear that you now have some answers. I obviously have no idea what you wrote on your form or why they have refused to give you enhanced mobility.
Here is something you need to think about.
You said here there is no way you can walk more than 200m. If you said that to an assessor or you have that written on your form, you would only have been awarded 4 points. From what you have said, I would be arguing for 2e - Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
The reason why I would say that, is because your pain in instantaneous, and you have to take frequent breaks. The pain must affect your balance and the speed at which you walk - which means there are safety and reliability issues.
You have implied here that you can walk 200 metres and I think if you said that or wrote something similar - that is what they have focused on.
Your problem is that you have a rare condition - so they will not know anything about it - and I think you should argue the severity of it and your depression has meant that you have not been able to articulate how debilitating your condition is, especially as no one knew what it was.
Read through this post - that LL26 one our mods wrote for another member to help you understand one of the key regulations.- and this should help you argue about your mobility.
Regulation 4(2A) PIP Regs 2013 provides that all PIP descriptor activities have to be completed • safely • repeatedly • to an acceptable standard • within a reasonable time This is the so called 'reliability' criteria - all 4 must apply- if you fail to meet even just one of the four this indicates you can't do that descriptor and may need help, an aid or actually can not do the task Safely - is there a substantial risk that harm might occur? So, if you have epilepsy, and a fit could occur causing danger then this indicates eg supervision for bathing- it doesn't matter whether the likelihood of the fit is infrequent; clearly a fit in the bath could have very serious consequences. Safety issues could comprise dropping knives, or hot pans/food whilst cooking or eating, but could also include leaving the cooker on, and running the risk of fire etc. Falls indicate safety issues, not hearing traffic coming could indicate the need for supervision if out walking.
Acceptable standard is not defined but kind of means the level of completion expected by others. Leaving large messes whilst cooking, or constantly spilling food off the plate or food probably isn't acceptable. Only being able to hear half the words being said is unlikely to be acceptable. Putting on clothes upside down or back to front with buttons not aligned with the button holes is unlikely to be acceptable. In addition, significant amounts of pain will also be 'unacceptable".
Reasonable time- this is defined as no more than twice that of non disabled person. If you take too long again this shows a need for an aid or physical help. Some of these criteria overlap- if you are too slow then this probably isn't acceptable. Leaving slip hazards in kitchen could be both unsafe and unacceptable. Finally consider repetition, tasks need to be done as many times a day as reasonable. The repetition rate will vary across the descriptors.You might wish to cook 3 times a day. Toilet needs with incontinence might need to be managed 10 or more times per day. With journeys and walking this could be 6 or 7 times per day. Bearing in mind the journey could be by car or public transport, but inevitably will involve at least a few short steps to the car and into the nearby building. It would not be unreasonable for someone to take kids to school, go to supermarket, need to go and get new shoes, walk back to car via card shop. Go home.Write card and go to post box. Pick up the kids. Visit mother in evening. None of these journeys or small amounts of walking would be unreasonable, and perhaps one of two more might be required. Communication could however be required 24/7.
You need to be able to do all the required repeats acceptably safely and within the appropriate time for each descriptor. If you fail to repeat except for a trivial time eg 5 mins of the day you can't communicate you can achieve points in accordance with the level of disability under the relevant descriptor. A descriptor will be met if you can't achieve any/all of the 4 criteria for the majority of days. This means that if you have a better day every so often, that won't preclude points/award of PIP. Fatigue could also comprise non acceptable standard. It is easy to consider each descriptor task in isolation. Think about the descriptors holistically. So...if I asked you, do you cook? - if you told me yes, but only when I don't go walking, and it's not the day I have a bath. This would suggest you can't repeat all the activities across the day. Likewise if fatigue, pain breathlessness increase in blood pressure, etc makes activities too slow, this might indicate a problem with repetition as well as being unacceptable standard, and perhaps not safe.
Filling out PIP forms requires a bit of lateral thinking. Consider what makes the activity difficult or impossible. If you had help, why would you need it, and what help would be required. Is it always at the same time, or does it depend on energy/pain levels etc? Try and quantify the help you get, or realistically should have. Disabled people who live alone or have little help often have a stark choice- try and do something, - it may take a while, be only half done, it may risk safety etc, but the alternative is to sit in the chair and do nothing.
Be realistic as to your limitations! If walking (or other descriptor activity) is now worse or needs more help, is now much slower, more unsafe etc, then a higher points value is appropriate, and this may be more than what you scored last time.
It’s not about diagnoses. It’s always about how your illness or disability affects you doing each section of the form. Remember the key phrases of Safely (can you do something safely), Reliably (if you can do it can you do it reliably?), Repeatedly (can you do that task repeatedly as much as necessary), and Acceptable Standard (is that task you have done to an acceptable standard?)
It's up to you whether you go forward with the Tribunal - but I think you may get more understand there (though there are no guarantees.
I hope this helps. Come back if you have any further questions and we will try to help BIS
I'm sorry that you're in so much pain, but glad to hear that you now have some answers. I obviously have no idea what you wrote on your form or why they have refused to give you enhanced mobility.
Here is something you need to think about.
You said here there is no way you can walk more than 200m. If you said that to an assessor or you have that written on your form, you would only have been awarded 4 points. From what you have said, I would be arguing for 2e - Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided. 12 points.
The reason why I would say that, is because your pain in instantaneous, and you have to take frequent breaks. The pain must affect your balance and the speed at which you walk - which means there are safety and reliability issues.
You have implied here that you can walk 200 metres and I think if you said that or wrote something similar - that is what they have focused on.
Your problem is that you have a rare condition - so they will not know anything about it - and I think you should argue the severity of it and your depression has meant that you have not been able to articulate how debilitating your condition is, especially as no one knew what it was.
Read through this post - that LL26 one our mods wrote for another member to help you understand one of the key regulations.- and this should help you argue about your mobility.
Regulation 4(2A) PIP Regs 2013 provides that all PIP descriptor activities have to be completed • safely • repeatedly • to an acceptable standard • within a reasonable time This is the so called 'reliability' criteria - all 4 must apply- if you fail to meet even just one of the four this indicates you can't do that descriptor and may need help, an aid or actually can not do the task Safely - is there a substantial risk that harm might occur? So, if you have epilepsy, and a fit could occur causing danger then this indicates eg supervision for bathing- it doesn't matter whether the likelihood of the fit is infrequent; clearly a fit in the bath could have very serious consequences. Safety issues could comprise dropping knives, or hot pans/food whilst cooking or eating, but could also include leaving the cooker on, and running the risk of fire etc. Falls indicate safety issues, not hearing traffic coming could indicate the need for supervision if out walking.
Acceptable standard is not defined but kind of means the level of completion expected by others. Leaving large messes whilst cooking, or constantly spilling food off the plate or food probably isn't acceptable. Only being able to hear half the words being said is unlikely to be acceptable. Putting on clothes upside down or back to front with buttons not aligned with the button holes is unlikely to be acceptable. In addition, significant amounts of pain will also be 'unacceptable".
Reasonable time- this is defined as no more than twice that of non disabled person. If you take too long again this shows a need for an aid or physical help. Some of these criteria overlap- if you are too slow then this probably isn't acceptable. Leaving slip hazards in kitchen could be both unsafe and unacceptable. Finally consider repetition, tasks need to be done as many times a day as reasonable. The repetition rate will vary across the descriptors.You might wish to cook 3 times a day. Toilet needs with incontinence might need to be managed 10 or more times per day. With journeys and walking this could be 6 or 7 times per day. Bearing in mind the journey could be by car or public transport, but inevitably will involve at least a few short steps to the car and into the nearby building. It would not be unreasonable for someone to take kids to school, go to supermarket, need to go and get new shoes, walk back to car via card shop. Go home.Write card and go to post box. Pick up the kids. Visit mother in evening. None of these journeys or small amounts of walking would be unreasonable, and perhaps one of two more might be required. Communication could however be required 24/7.
You need to be able to do all the required repeats acceptably safely and within the appropriate time for each descriptor. If you fail to repeat except for a trivial time eg 5 mins of the day you can't communicate you can achieve points in accordance with the level of disability under the relevant descriptor. A descriptor will be met if you can't achieve any/all of the 4 criteria for the majority of days. This means that if you have a better day every so often, that won't preclude points/award of PIP. Fatigue could also comprise non acceptable standard. It is easy to consider each descriptor task in isolation. Think about the descriptors holistically. So...if I asked you, do you cook? - if you told me yes, but only when I don't go walking, and it's not the day I have a bath. This would suggest you can't repeat all the activities across the day. Likewise if fatigue, pain breathlessness increase in blood pressure, etc makes activities too slow, this might indicate a problem with repetition as well as being unacceptable standard, and perhaps not safe.
Filling out PIP forms requires a bit of lateral thinking. Consider what makes the activity difficult or impossible. If you had help, why would you need it, and what help would be required. Is it always at the same time, or does it depend on energy/pain levels etc? Try and quantify the help you get, or realistically should have. Disabled people who live alone or have little help often have a stark choice- try and do something, - it may take a while, be only half done, it may risk safety etc, but the alternative is to sit in the chair and do nothing.
Be realistic as to your limitations! If walking (or other descriptor activity) is now worse or needs more help, is now much slower, more unsafe etc, then a higher points value is appropriate, and this may be more than what you scored last time.
It’s not about diagnoses. It’s always about how your illness or disability affects you doing each section of the form. Remember the key phrases of Safely (can you do something safely), Reliably (if you can do it can you do it reliably?), Repeatedly (can you do that task repeatedly as much as necessary), and Acceptable Standard (is that task you have done to an acceptable standard?)
It's up to you whether you go forward with the Tribunal - but I think you may get more understand there (though there are no guarantees.
I hope this helps. Come back if you have any further questions and we will try to help BIS
Nothing on this board constitutes legal advice - always consult a professional about specific problems
Last edit: 1 month 4 weeks ago by BIS.
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